Can Length Affect a Ride's Quality?

[Hutch]

The recent POV of Maxx Force left me disappointed with the ride's length, especially how it ends, and I imagine its length will likely be a part of the conversation when discussing the ride's quality (you know, once people ride the thing).

It got me thinking of other coasters where the length plays a major factor in determining its quality or your opinion. Can a ride be too short that leaves you feeling underwhelmed? Or is it too long to the point where it's overkill?

Now, for me at least, I normally don't look at length when I'm putting together an opinion of a ride (similar mindset as "bigger not always better"). I try to focus on what the ride itself has to offer (g-force, airtime, inversions, pace, etc), and if that's any good. For example, Skyrush and Lightning Rod have fairly short ride cycles but that doesn't matter when their offerings are so good. Another example is with Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka. Both have more or less the same layout and incredibly short ride cycles, but those 20 seconds don't really weigh in on my opinions. I love TTD because it's executed perfectly, but I hate KK because it feels like an earthquake.

I can't really think of any examples where a ride is too short. I generally really like top hat accelerators (bar Kingda Ka of course), but those rides are meant to be short so I don't have a problem with their lengths. I'll come back to this one.

I do have a couple of rides that I think would benefit from being a bit shorter:

Voyage - Now I know they've been doing work on this recently so I'm basing this off my rides in 2016. My issues with this ride are the roughness and the length. I honestly think that if the ride ended a bit sooner, maybe take out those last couple turns near the station, I would've rated this a little higher. By the time I was hauling through the second half, part of me was looking forward to the ride ending soon. It was just overkill. I want to be left wanting more, not relieved for it to be over. Now, this might not be the best example because the length issue is related to the roughness, and it sounds like they're patching up the roughness anyway, so maybe it'll turn out fine? Hopefully I'll find out this summer.

Fury 325 - Take out that damn helix. Literally the only reason it's there is to claim the "longest steel coaster in North America" title. It's only seven feet longer than Millennium Force so of course without that slow, drawn out helix it'd lose a few hundred feet. Either replace the helix with another camelback or hell maybe even just end it right there. I'd actually love to see the ride get on with the camelbacks earlier and end the ride right before the helix entrance.

Interested to hear other examples.

 

[b&mfanboy123]

A Ride like Goliath really comes to mind when talking about this. You have this glorious RMC and it features some of the best elements on an RMC. But the main critique that many people have is that it is to short. If for say it were long then the fabulous pacing would be compromised for what, another 1000ft of track. So in conclusion some rides that are really good, don't need the length, but in other cases yeah it would be nice. Like for Max Force, they could turn the last double inversion into a double roll, and then have the ride do a tiny bit more and then end. That would have made people a lot more happy then they are right now.

 

[rob666]

According to my wife...sadly yes.
Come on, someone was going to crack a gag with a topic title like that.

 

[Fluorineer]

I feel like Goliath at SFGAm is a great example for when a ride consists of entirely great elements, however so much attention is being paid to visual composition (especially the Zero-G-Interaction with the lifthill structure) that the actual ride composition falls short. It just ends without warning, which is bothering me more than pure length. When I watch the POV, the break run gets me every single time because you can't see it, and you don't expect it.

My favorite layout detail about Taron is that both halves have on the spot the exact same ride time despite being traversed in significantly different speeds. This is kind of the opposite to Goliath, as it serves evidence for how much thought went into the ride/layout composition, while staying on the conservative side in terms of individual elements.

To contrast this, Helix has so imbalanced halves that it almost bothers me. Technically, the part after the 2nd launch could serve as a phenomenal finale, however it loses so much speed into the Heartline Roll (as evidenced by its lack of snappiness) that it feels like the first launch just didn't provide enough speed for the entire layout so they put in a 2nd one for good measure (which honestly, that is exactly what Mack has done).

For some reason, the evolution of Dive Coasters shows a concern with length and additional elements, making it seem B&M did not feel comfortable with one-trick-ponies, however all of the long dive coasters have missed the point of Oblivion entirely and even something like Valkyria, while being a generally solid dive layout, really doesn't provide anything beyond a decent, and for that category still too short B&M looper layout. DMs are a great example of how length can be completely overrated.

 

[Chris Brown]

To contrast this, Helix has so imbalanced halves that it almost bothers me. Technically, the part after the 2nd launch could serve as a phenomenal finale, however it loses so much speed into the Heartline Roll (as evidenced by its lack of snappiness) that it feels like the first launch just didn't provide enough speed for the entire layout so they put in a 2nd one for good measure (which honestly, that is exactly what Mack has done.

Not really sure what you mean here, the second launch leads to the huge top hat and incredible airtime hill which is a decent enough finale. Can understand your point if it launched straight into the heartline but it doesn’t.

To add to this Powder Keg looks like a great ride but jesus that lift hill is pointless, shocked they even bothered putting it in. That’s a far worse crime than Helix’s second launch

 

[Pear]

To add to this Powder Keg looks like a great ride but jesus that lift hill is pointless, shocked they even bothered putting it in. That’s a far worse crime than Helix’s second launch

Wasn't the lift hill from the previous Buzzsaw Falls coaster?

 

[jayjay]

A lot of my opinion of a ride comes from how I'm feeling when we hit the brake run. If it runs out of steam, I've got to the brake run cooled down and might subconsciously forget that awesome bit in the middle. If the thrill is good enough, I'll even ignore something that's blatantly too short, like Stealth because my lingering emotion is "YEEEEAAAAA..."

 

[tomahawk]

Wasn't the lift hill from the previous Buzzsaw Falls coaster?

Yeah, that have a lot of reused track on that thing too.

Twisted Colossus is the absolute prime example of this. The two parts are absolutely tremendous...as a first half of a ride. The problem is that lift hill in the middle. It kills any form of pace and just kills the ride completely. I remember the animation and thinking that there had to be more they weren't showing before the second lift. That structure is offensively big, but nope.

Full Throttle/Maxx Force: I'm lumping these together, because they both end absolutely horrendously. You should not have brakes halfway into your final element. That easy. FT took a huge area, and did nothing with it.

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[Antinos]

The best answer to the question is probably sometimes. I'd like to refer to @Hyde's statistical analysis of his rankings - it's clear that length is a driver but it doesn't correlate as well as one would think. The Beast is a good example of a long ride that doesn't necessarily rank highly. Granted, it's clear that a lot of great rides have a good length - my top ten contains Steel Vengeance, The Voyage, Bizarro, and Boulder Dash.

Looking at it from the opposite angle, short rides like kiddie coasters and wild mice are **** in comparison, but then there are rides like Top Thrill Dragster. We all know how short it is - 25 seconds from launch to full stop...but it's one of the most thrilling 25 seconds of any roller coaster you'll ever ride. Zero to 120mph in 3.7 seconds?! Hybrid hypercars can hardly keep up. And then it's going to take you 420 feet above the ground?! The thrill in its name is certainly earned. I like to call what I'm describing "wow factor." It can't really be measured though - it's an emotional response...you have to feel it. Looking at my top ten again... Lightning Rod, Outlaw Run, and Goliath all invoke this wow factor and really muddy the water behind this length question.

 

[Hutch]

For some reason, the evolution of Dive Coasters shows a concern with length and additional elements, making it seem B&M did not feel comfortable with one-trick-ponies, however all of the long dive coasters have missed the point of Oblivion entirely and even something like Valkyria, while being a generally solid dive layout, really doesn't provide anything beyond a decent, and for that category still too short B&M looper layout. DMs are a great example of how length can be completely overrated.

The dive machines are another good example (didn't think of them when I first made this topic), although I gotta disagree about the large DMs and Oblivion. Oblivion is easily my least favorite DM I've done, and that mainly comes down to the length. Yes what's there is good, but there's no wow factor like in Dragster or Lightning Rod. My feeling for the ride is that you hit the brake run and go "that's it?." Now yes I need what the layout is, yes it's the first of its kind but I don't want to give it a pass for that. If the drop was truly amazing or felt unique enough and left me speechless, then I'd think a bit different about it but that's not the case.

I do prefer the larger DM's mainly because they can without being overkill. If there're inversions, a second dive drop, or an airtime hill then that'll keep me interested for a bit. I like Griffon and Valravn because they have the stronger layouts. I rate Sheikra in the middle because while the layout isn't as strong there's still some more interesting elements than Oblivion.

I think Valkyria looks like one of the better ones. Seems to have a perfect length for a DM (no MCBR too) with a nice flow of elements following the drop. Yukon Striker looks good because the drop is ****ing huge and there's also a focus on floaty inversions however this one probably should've ended after the 4th inversion. The post MCBR section is just pointless.

 

[Sandman]

I think ride length can definitely work for or against certain rides. In terms of major coasters, shorter rides that are highly rated usually focus on a short burst of energy like TTD etc or focus primarily on a major thrilling element (The shorter dive coasters etc). Easy to remember those condensed moments of sheer thrill. The reason Oblivion still seems to hold up against the bigger/longer dive coasters is mainly because it's short and punchy. The impact is focused entirely on it's main selling point - the drop. Other dive coasters merely water this down with additional meandery bits (Valkyria does look good though, can't wait to ride that).

Sure, coasters on the longer side can also be excellent, but technically it's harder to condense a higher quality when there's higher quantity. At some point there's more chance you'll hit an "off beat" moment or the pace will start slowing. I think that's why the dawn of multi launch coasters has been such a success, because that second launch gives it that added injection to keep things interesting whilst having a lengthier layout to enjoy whilst still being thrilled. But it's still a very subjective thing.

 

[Hyde]

I'd like to refer to @Hyde's statistical analysis of his rankings

LET'S GO POWER RANGERS!

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Like a number of you have already pointed out, length is one of the biggest factors that changes with ride type - kiddie rides are short, world classics are super long. In my own personal rankings, Length tracked pretty well with how I Ranked roller coasters - longer roller coasters were more often ranked higher.

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While not as highly correlated to Ranking as Top Speed or Height, Length still has a very positive impact on how I ranked roller coasters, ahead of other factors like Drop Height or Year Opened. (Reminder: for correlations, the higher the number, the more positive correlation there is between two factors. A perfect correlation would be 1.)

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If you hold my assumptions for broader generalization, Length is a definite key characteristic for a good roller coaster.

If you're interested in seeing rankings and calculations in more detail, just click my Top 10 rankings in signature.

 

[JoshC.]

I've been trying to take a leaf out of Hyde's book and come up with my own little analysis of creds.

Sadly nowhere near as in depth yet (watch this space!), but I have a nice graph looking at my Top 30 and their lengths..


For a bit more context, a brief breakdown of the coasters I've ridden per 1000ft:


A lot of them seem to fall in the 2000-2500ft region, but a fairly solid percentage of the longer coasters are ranked very well. Much like Hyde, length seems to be one of the biggest factors for me as well. If/When I get round to ranking more coasters, it'll be interesting to see how different my results are.

But yes, I think length is important, but you do have to strike the balance and use it well.

An interesting question to raise now though - with coasters with semi-shuttle elements becoming more popular, how do we view length? Is it the length of the physical track? Or the length the train travels? Should Vekoma Boomerangs be viewed as twice their length? Is the (rough) duration of the coaster more important than it's length?

 

[Catmaydo]

I'm going to misuse an old cliché from another fun activity with lots of ups and downs, "it's not the length, it's what you do with it". In theory, the longer the coaster, the more money is invested, and with that greater investment there's a bigger incentive for parks to come up with a quality ride. There's plenty of examples over the years of parks padding the length of a coaster with long drawn out sections to achieve a record, and coming up with a mediocre/terrible experience; however, I feel it's improving all the time.

I think that as manufacturing technology has developed, and we've seen new, wilder elements being developed, we're hitting a point where designers have a better opportunities to come up with and build a ride that's varied and thrilling. The longer rides of the 1980s look fairly tame and unimaginative compared to today's crop.

On the flip side, you've got some wild looking modern rides like Full Throttle, or Maxx Force which are purely there to fulfil a specific remit (fast launch, fast inversion) for a limited budget, but then do nothing else. It's almost like there's no desire on the part of the park to do much more than grab a headline for a limited time.

 

[Fluorineer]

On the flip side, you've got some wild looking modern rides like Full Throttle, or Maxx Force which are purely there to fulfil a specific remit (fast launch, fast inversion) for a limited budget, but then do nothing else. It's almost like there's no desire on the part of the park to do much more than grab a headline for a limited time.

I wouldn't even go that far. I feel like these coaster suffer far more from false advertising rather than their acutal length (or lack of it). Full Throttle is pretty much a Sky Rocket III, however it wasn't advertised as one, and due to the enormous space it could have potentially taken up, it was bound to disappoint expectations. A regular Sky Rocket II however is exactly what it's supposed to be and advertised as: a cookie-cutter, short, high-thrill roller coaster, which is pretty much the modern Boomerang-approach, and therefore it works. It's composition makes a lot of sense (just look at the tiny footprint), while Full Throttle has no such composition.

 

[JJLehto]

Kinda.

I wont say a short ride really takes away from a good ride, its not detrimental it just makes it less good. It's not as good as it could be. Ya know a good ride is always good, you always get off feeling good, but if short ya think damn, if only it was longer. So I wont say it affects the ride quality, but it can hold it back from being better.
Obviously this is not a universal statement. A ride can be long and bad, and in that case its length doesnt help it. I think of Cheetah Hunt, was an ok ride, 6/10 for me. It was nice and long though, did that improve its quality, no not really. Likewise TTD is short, does that detract? No not that all. I once waited 3 hours for Kingda Ka and we were still over the moon after we got off the ride. So ya know, always a grain of salt.

SUPER interesting some of yall have crunched the numbers (stat nerd in me is smiling big) and theres a pretty strong correlation with your rankings and length.
Makes sense, a longer ride is (likely) to be faster, to do more stuff. A short ride is by nature likely to "do less" and we naturally like more. And again, the Beast...super long but lots of nothing, TTD super short but one helluva ride, its not universal but deff length has an impact, too short keeps the ride from being better, in aggregate.

Since Maxxforce came up, thats a great example. I too was bitterly let down by the POV, I didnt expect some mile long epic but it really does little. At least Full Throttle has some turns and the dive. I will not get to Maxxforce this year but I expect I'd like Full Throttle better. Thats a case where length does help, the ride "does more" than Maxxforce even if the latter is more intense, and the backwards launch on FT while many mock it, makes the ride longer. Not wastefully either, you get some major hangtime in the back, its fun to drop back into a launch and keeps the pacing up. Much as I love Maverick for example it always was a bit meh how all the speed is killed, just to accelerate again. So Full Throttle benefits alot from extra length, if it didnt stop and go back but just went right into the last launch that ride would be a lot less enjoyable. Likewise Maxxforce looks meh. I hope you get some major air on that hop and feel that 60mph inversion otherwise it'll be a great launch but a 30 second ride that will leave ya wanting a lot more.
Goliath is another good one, great ride I am sure but it seems enthusiasts rank it lower even near the bottom of the RMCs thus far. Makes sense, its a fun intense ride but over so quick, imagine if it continued and had more airtime hills, some more turns and inversions. A good example of length not taking away from a ride but holding it back.