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"Blue Fire" Mack Coaster for Europa Park

^Joey's right I'm afraid Ben.
And the cars are no fun if you have 'Mr evil ride op' working his shift at that time.
 
Bah admittedly i went the year before Silverstar but there is a reason EP is constantly regarded as one of if not the best park in Europe.
in my opinion EP is probably the 2nd best park i have ever been to, next to IOA.

But to each his own :)

Anyway this ride does look amazing. I'm really interested to see how it compares to Ispeed.
 
Silver Star was bad, but I did love the trains they were the best part of the coaster.

But would Silver Star have been as bad if we had not expected it to be great?
 
Marc, I wasn't expecting Silver Star to be amazing. I just rode it for what it was. And came off and said it was really disappointing and everyone agreed. :lol:
 
I don't really understand this "Silver Star is disappointing" viewpoint.

I'm haven't been on too many hyper-coasters (Silver Star, PMBO and Goliath at WW if it counts), but I found it fun. It has an abundance of air-time, for one. It does have a very curiously-placed camera and what I consider a mundane station when compared to the rest of the park, though. I'd like to know what it is that other coasters of this type have that Silver Star lacks.

On the other point - that the rest of Europa Park is rubbish - come on‽ What‽ It is a beautifully-themed theme park that has many secrets tucked away. I mean, surely, those who take exception to it must only be interested in the rides themselves, with no notice of the theme, shows, or atmosphere. The pulchritude of theme parks is, in my opinion, the intermingling of the rides and that strange mood of reverie and illusion. With either missing my interest would falter.

Oh, Hotel Colosseo FTW!
 
andybeard said:
I'd like to know what it is that other coasters of this type have that Silver Star lacks.
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Less brakes, more airtime, more speed.

New images from epfans from today.
They have finished the inline and started on one of the corkscrew/zero-g inversions.

http://www.epfans.info/?id=2270&
 
loefet said:
andybeard said:
I'd like to know what it is that other coasters of this type have that Silver Star lacks.
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Less brakes, more airtime, more speed.
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... uh, Silver Star is the second fastest B&M Mega at the moment, and it's far from the most trimmed...
 
loefet said:
andybeard said:
I'd like to know what it is that other coasters of this type have that Silver Star lacks.
Click to expand...
Less brakes, more airtime, more speed.
Click to expand...

I don't think that makes for a clear argument. I know you were directly answering my request, but I'll respond with a presumption that you are discussing the general subject. Let's take the three critisisms in reverse for the sake of symmetry and to make my comments seem tidy.

In Europe, Silver Star is the fastest coaster with a lift hill; there can't be more than ten in the rest of the world that are faster. How much more speed do you want of it?

The airtime is subjective. Comparable only if you have ridden *an awful lot* of coasters. I haven't, really, but found Silver Star to have a good amount. And certainly more than either PMBO or Goliath. That is not to say that I prefer Silver Star to Goliath; perhaps this is fundamental this issue: airtime is not the only thing that makes a hyper/mega coaster great.

And onto your request for less breaking. Well, not so much a request: a desire for fewer breaks. It is undoubtable that turning the trims off would improve Silver Star significantly but they don't really ruin the ride, do they?

Sorry, this is slightly off subject and has probably been discussed many times before. The subject appears to have evolved because people believe that Europa Park lacks any real thrills and that this coaster may rectify this. I sort of agree. None of the park's rides would score that highly if ranked by Thorpe Park's ostensible target audience. There are no spin/spew rides and no inversions (until now). But isn't it a perfectly balanced resort with ample days worth of things to see and do?

The new coaster looks great and will be a great addition to the park but as many Vekoma SLCs, Boomerangs, and Arrow Corkscrews prove - thrill rides don't necessarily make good rides. However, awesome theming - for which Europa are renowned - often makes a poor ride system an amazing experience.
 
That's quite like saying "He's from Poland. Therefore, he is automatically sub-par compared to the other builders that you will find in the Yellow Pages. End of story."

It may, or may not be true, but it is completely unqualified. It's pretty paltry discussion if you just say "End of story" just because you haven't got anything to (or don't want to) back up your argument, ergo It would be pertinent for you to elaborate on, qualify or justify your comment as, after all, this is a forum for discussion.
 
Your little Poland remark isn't exactly backing up your argument either. Often times manufacturers develop tendencies in their design that carry over from coaster to coaster. In the terms of B&M, you're not going to find airtime on their coasters like you would on an Intamin - solely based off of the way they engineer things. It's the nature of the beast. B&M designs to a T with their rides, leaving a very minuscule margin of error. You honestly think that one day the firm is just going to "let something go" and all of the sudden you have greater airtime? No - everything is very calculated and within certain ranges.

Now is that to say that all of the forces on their rides feel the same? Absolutely not. I found Goliath in Georgia to have more defined airtime than...lets say... Raging Bull. But it's all within moderate relation...
 
My apologies for the remark, which I agree was little on many levels, but I believe that you have misinterpreted its use - which is admittedly my own fault.

My point in using it was more to outline the egregiously futile use of "End of story". It was an allusion of the right wing British media's ability to be untamed and short when referring to the subject of eastern European workers. As a subject to bring up as a comparison it was ill-explained and probably out of place. I hope this clarifies and corrects without the need to edit.


Whilst I understand that manufacturers produce similar rides and too appreciate your view B&M's "style" and tolerance of airtime my point still stands that Silver Star does not lack airtime and even if, in your view, it does does this really ruin the ride. It is still a fluid, fast and enthralling ride. Do you really see the ride as rubbish on this one point? If so, why divert your attention from coasters with plenty of airtime to visit a construction thread about a ride that inherently will lack any airtime?


Edited for some grammatical corrections.
 
The first thing I'd suggest is to not make suggestions about the coaster being built. There's plenty of moments on the ride for riders to feel some sort of negative g effect - so dismissing it as lacking airtime is a pretty rash judgment - especially on a coaster new to Mack, and even more so this early in the ballgame.

As for Silver Star - it goes in circles. B&M designs according to certain boundaries, but then you've got Silver Star, a ride that's been riddled with trim brakes. I've never been on the coaster myself, but I've definitely seen the POVs and would be happy to point them out to you... but I trust you enough to understand what I'm talking about. But at the same time you have to understand that trimming a ride isn't always based on rider comfort. A lot of times it has to do with maintenance and the like. Rides like Mean Streak, Expedition GeForce and Montu are completely different animals without their trims - so who's to say that Silver Star wouldn't be the same?
 
Mike T said:
The first thing I'd suggest is to not make suggestions about the coaster being built.
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That's fair enough, but the new coaster's type doesn't exactly suggest that there'll be bags of air time.


Ultimate Coaster said:
Andybeard - the problem with your argument is that you fail to realize that B&M coasters are designed to exactly 0Gs...no more, no less.

etc., etc.
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Actually, this isn't a problem with my argument. My point all along, primarily, has been that although Silver Star may not have ample airtime - it does not make it sub standard. It seems strange to me that you, (apparently) along with a lot of people, seem to discard the entire coaster experience to this one fact. Why then, I ask again, would you have any interest in a roller coaster such as the one that this topic is about (probably) or, say, Nemesis or a Boomerang? Airtime is not what makes - or breaks - a coaster.
 
Erm, actually, in quite a few people's opinion, it is.
Have you ever been to blackpool and ridden PMBO? It has no airtime on the hills, therefore a lot of people hate it (also maybe because it is rough).

However, I like silverstar's 'perfect' floater airtime, it's not intense but its relaxing and gives more of a flying sensation than an intense one.
 
I'd also like to add...

UC said:
Andybeard - the problem with your argument is that you fail to realize that B&M coasters are designed to exactly 0Gs...no more, no less.
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Though, of course, that only applies to the very middle seat, and as such the front and back do experience stronger then 0g airtime.

Of course, you knew that though.

Plus, it's a lot more fun then having your thighs raped by coasters like Toro (on all three of its hills, I'll add)
 
If I remember Silver Star trimmed twice on each hill, the front then the back. Not sure if the others are like this.

The new coaster is coming on well though, just hope its worth going back to the park.
 
When there is concern that this may not be the case, trim brakes are added (hence why there are a few on Behemoth). These brakes will often grip the train halfway up the hill, so that the front, middle, and back all experience the same forces.
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UC, look, I rode Behemoth in the front, back and middle on consecutive trains in two different sessions, and I'm sorry, but that's just not true. There IS a difference in the forces. Of course there is. At any given point on the hill the front, back and middle will NOT pass it at the same speed, therefore, different forces are produced. Without it doing the whole hill at the same speed (basically, being a powered coaster) there is NO way for what you're saying to be true. It's why going into the top of the hill you would be lifted up strongly, and then going down off it, the airtime would stop (and vice-versa for the back). Conversely, in the middle, it's pretty much constant (that constant 0g can be found there).

See what I'm getting at? The front car will hit, maybe -.5g? Maybe that's a bit generous for the "normal" B&M Hypers, but for Behemoth, I'd put that about right. That's when flattening at the top of the hill (you're pushed UP, producing airtime). Then, the middle gets about 0g over the whole thing (what B&M wanted, but can only truly get in one row). Then, the back will hit maybe -.5g leaving the top of the hill, and more then 0g flattening at the top.

To say that the front, back and middle all produce the same forces actually suggests to me you've never ridden a B&M hyper, or any of coaster for that matter.

Oh, and SFNE's Catapult restraints? Go into the Mumbo Jumbo topic, read all the bitching in there about how they hope it doesn't have Slammer's restraints (an IMPROVED version of Catapult's, I may add), and yes, I'm the only one bitching about them. Oh, and I mentioned two of the four people I rode with didn't have problems (yes, I wasn't specific), but the forth person DID, and other people in the larger group DID have problems with it. Quick side question, is it true they've finally removed it this year?

And my body shape actually has very little to do with why I don't like ejector as much as floater. Why would the size of my belly have any effect on the sensation in my thighs (for reference, my thighs are actually comparatively large when compared with the oddly shaped stomach I'm referring to when talking about Catapult, and would be counted as a normal shape).
 
Ultimate Coaster said:
Though, of course, that only applies to the very middle seat, and as such the front and back do experience stronger then 0g airtime.
Of course, you knew that though.
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This is incorrect. Whatever the perception may be, the differences between the front and back of B&M hypers - the first drop notwithstanding (as it will obviously cause the back to be pulled over more so than the front) - are very minimal.
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From the accelerometer data I got, you can clearly see a different between a front- and a back-row ride, on coaster with or without inversions.
There is usually a difference of 0.5-0.7g between up and down a hill.

Ex.
In the front you get -0.5 before the top and 0 on the way down, and in the backseat it's the other way around.
 
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