CrashCoaster
CF Legend
I was comparing it to another Mack launch coaster. If comparing it to CBT is irrelevant, then comparing it to Helix is just as irrelevant.
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Blackpool Pleasure Beach | Icon | Mack Multi-Launch
- Thread starter Temleh
- Start date
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
The Mack Mega coaster is something completely different (the answer to Intamin's Megalite). Imagine a mini hyper with buckets of airtime over lots of hills. That IS completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Capitol Bullet Train and Star Trek are comparable coasters to each other - both with compact layouts and lowish speed since they have a reversable launch and spend lots of time up a spike.
Helix is more than a fair comparison to Icon as it has launches, speed, inversions and, most importantly, is terrain-hugging. Blue Fire is somewhat similar but with less terrain interaction. Manta has no inversions and is much more of a low intensity family coaster.
Capitol Bullet Train and Star Trek are comparable coasters to each other - both with compact layouts and lowish speed since they have a reversable launch and spend lots of time up a spike.
Helix is more than a fair comparison to Icon as it has launches, speed, inversions and, most importantly, is terrain-hugging. Blue Fire is somewhat similar but with less terrain interaction. Manta has no inversions and is much more of a low intensity family coaster.
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Lofty
CF Legend
Icon, Helix and Blue Fire are comparable as they all have a similar flow (even though Blue Fire has less of so). All three coasters have similar types of launches, inversions and the odd airtime moment here and there. Capitol Bullet Train has a rolling triple launch, the backwards spike, much more compact and on flat ground, is tiny in comparison with the rest and just nothing like them.
Lofty
CF Legend
I think you're my new fave.
vaugc002
Hyper Poster
This :emoji_point_up::emoji_raised_hands:
We wouldn't compare Gold Rush to Karacho for example so I can't see a CBT vs Icon debate as fair.
At the end of the day, Icon is proportionally lower than Helix so I'm sure the pacing will be just fine.
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
I’m probably going to regret this but I’m inclined to back up @ATI here,
I think it’s a completely fair point to compare the likes of CBT and STOE to Helix and Icon. We aren’t comparing length, excitement or inversions we are only comparing one thing and that’s the launch speed and how that effects the speed in which the rest of the layout is taken. If STOE is 5mph faster than Icon then I think they can realistically be compared. The elements aren’t hugely different, they both have inversions, they are both low to the ground, they both have tight snappy turns and both have smallish airtime hills.
The fact that CBT and STOE are triple rolling launches doesn’t make any difference to the overall launch speed which is what this whole discussion is about?
I was mentioning the launch speed of STOE to give a perspective of how a seemingly low launch speed doesn’t necessarily translate to a slow sluggish layout, the fact that Icon’s top speed is lower than STOE should naturally worry some people, I know it wont make a difference as Mack have designed the elements to be taken at the optimal speed but when push comes to shove under 50mph on paper is pretty sluggish for a coaster this size.
I think it’s a completely fair point to compare the likes of CBT and STOE to Helix and Icon. We aren’t comparing length, excitement or inversions we are only comparing one thing and that’s the launch speed and how that effects the speed in which the rest of the layout is taken. If STOE is 5mph faster than Icon then I think they can realistically be compared. The elements aren’t hugely different, they both have inversions, they are both low to the ground, they both have tight snappy turns and both have smallish airtime hills.
The fact that CBT and STOE are triple rolling launches doesn’t make any difference to the overall launch speed which is what this whole discussion is about?
I was mentioning the launch speed of STOE to give a perspective of how a seemingly low launch speed doesn’t necessarily translate to a slow sluggish layout, the fact that Icon’s top speed is lower than STOE should naturally worry some people, I know it wont make a difference as Mack have designed the elements to be taken at the optimal speed but when push comes to shove under 50mph on paper is pretty sluggish for a coaster this size.
vaugc002
Hyper Poster
^ but if you've got a launch halfway through the layout (like Helix & Icon) then the overall pacing of the ride will be different to those that have a launch at the beginning (CBT and STOE).
Also, I think were all on the same side here - it's going to be a solid ride regardless
Also, I think were all on the same side here - it's going to be a solid ride regardless
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
^ but if you've got a launch halfway through the layout (like Helix & Icon) then the overall pacing of the ride will be different to those that have a launch at the beginning (CBT and STOE).
Also, I think were all on the same side here - it's going to be a solid ride regardless
Oh definitely, but that second launch is still, on paper, slower than 50mph. I’m not trying to consider the overall length of the coaster or the natural depreciation of speed through the layout. I’m solely comparing the top speed and thus the launch speed. My main point was initially trying to highlight that whilst people were worrying about a slow top speed when compared to Helix, STOE has the same trains, similar elements and will therefore give a similar perception of speed yet is still relatively slow (55mph). STOE looks incredibly slow offride and to an extent in POV’s but in my opinion doesn’t feel slow when you actually ride it. Therefore using my poor comparisons I hoped that I would ease some peoples worries regarding the top speed.
Agreed, I think this will be an incredible ride, I’m not worried about the top speed but understand why some people are, this was my (awful) attempt at a little reassurance.
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
No but you can still compare the top speed which in both cases would be the speed in which the coaster is launched to. I'm not trying to compare the intensity / acceleration of the launches because you are right they are completely different. I'm solely comparing the top speed which is the speed the coaster exists the launch, having a rolling launch, compressed air launch or triple spike launch doesn't affect that
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
But the discussion was also about speed (maximum, average, inferred by the rider depending on near misses etc.). A launch into a slow spike is incredibly different to the build up of speed across multiple launches.
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
No, the discussion was about top speed. Well at least i deemed it to be after you listed the top speed of various coasters?
Im not saying the launch process is the same, i thought i made this clear when replying to Lofty?
I am comparing the top speed of each coaster which occurs after Icons launch and after 'the 3 launch process' of STOE. There is 5mph difference between Icon and STOE how is that so incomparable?
Yeh but Velocity is a crappy Vekoma so what ya gonna do.
Matt N
CF Legend
And that, my friends, proves that speed does not necessarily make a better coaster.
Throwing another spanner in this discussion, the perception of speed can also differ depending on the track surroundings and proximity to the ground and stuff. Velocity at FL’s top speed (and launch) feels sluggish to me because it’s fully exposed, whereas I reckon Icon’s speed will feel faster due to it’s setting.