Baron does a better job of being about the drop than Oblivion

[Gazza]

Im not trying to dab on Oblivion , I'm really not, but I've been thinking.
(like it's really fun)

Baron 1898 does a much better job of being "all about the drop" than Oblivion.

Let me go back a step.

Oblivion objectively has the worst dive machine layout...Ok maybe Krake comes close but that's tangential to the point.

People defend Oblivion by saying "Its all about the drop" and that makes it OK because it's the purest form of dive machine. Others like it because it drops deep into a bit of fog, and thats fine too.

But at the end of the day doesn't Baron 1898 do both of those things better.

Don't get me wrong the latter half of Baron is pretty pointless too, but at least they -tried- to do something with the inevitable trip back to the station.

you might argue that something like Sheikra goes off topic and makes other elements too much of a focus, but you certainly cannot say that about Baron.

I just think the whole mine shaft with the ding ding ding, and the fact that the lift hill structure is the most thematically pure thing of beauty on any coaster....

Basically a oblivion made it about the drop.

But so did Baron, but they didn't default to the Merlin/Tussads lazy level of theming

 

[Nitefly]

I don’t particularly like how Baron obviously levels out before the ‘hole’, personally. Oblivion is much more ominous in that sense.

 

[nadroJ]

Are there any Dive Coasters out there that END with the big boi drop? I can't help but think this would solve the whole 'everything after the drop is pointless' thing? I'd like to see that as a concept tbh, I wonder if it would change anything.

I certainly agree that Baron does the better job of presenting the drop in the best way, because that theming is gorgeous, but the psychological build up to plummeting into oblivion is still yet to be beaten bar the original for me.

 

[Matt N]

Are there any Dive Coasters out there that END with the big boi drop? I can't help but think this would solve the whole 'everything after the drop is pointless' thing? I'd like to see that as a concept tbh, I wonder if it would change anything.

Now that's an interesting hypothesis to consider! I don't think there is one at present, but I certainly think it would be an interesting ride if one were built with this design!

I imagine it working if a park with a big hillside or something got a Dive Coaster. For instance, let's say Kennywood built a Dive Coaster. They could do a vertical or near-vertical drop that's shorter atop the hillside, do a few elements, and then have the largest drop be the second drop off the MCBR; a bit like Phantom's Revenge, the drop after the MCBR could be taller and steeper, maybe vertical or even beyond-vertical like Dr Diabolical's Cliffhanger at SFFT. It could work, as even the drop off the MCBR often has a substantial slowdown/hold of sorts on it on most (possibly all?) current Dive Coasters with MCBRs. This would also work quite nicely, as it would obey the laws of showmanship that John Wardley (as an example) often used and leave the coaster's best trick until last!

That's a great idea, actually; all we need now is for a park with a massive hill, cliff or ravine to build a dive coaster...

 

[Pokemaniac]

Are there any Dive Coasters out there that END with the big boi drop? I can't help but think this would solve the whole 'everything after the drop is pointless' thing? I'd like to see that as a concept tbh, I wonder if it would change anything.

Depending on how you count the Intamin accelerators that only go up, over the top, and back down ... nah, still not.

Thing is, to get a big boy drop, you need to start from up high. To have any sort of layout before the big boy drop, you need to begin the layout even higher and mostly stay high up until the big boy drop (which is an expensive nightmare for supports and such). And at the bottom of a big boy drop, the train will have a ton of kinetic energy it needs to get rid of before stopping. Going back up for a bit and converting it back to potential energy, or bleeding it off as friction through a long layout, seem to be the easiest and most convenient options, and riders will hardly fault you for adding elements to the coaster.

And, I mean, if all you want is a drop and then the end ... why not ride a drop tower instead?

 

[Dar]

I could imagine something with a small mid-course size drop out of the station, with an inversion or two, maybe a bunny hill, then a big lift with the big drop that comes back up into the brakes with some wicked ejector on the way in. You'd need to have the station on a bit of a hill, but it seems reasonably feasible

 

[RcTmix]

I think @Matt N has it right. This could work well from a pacing and construction standpoint on the right terrain, so after the big drop the train could wind around back up to the station on higher ground. Imagine Phantoms Revenge going OVER Thunderbolt, then plummeting straight down into the Ravine, and doing an obligatory immelmann back up to the station.

 

[oriolat2]

Are there any Dive Coasters out there that END with the big boi drop? I can't help but think this would solve the whole 'everything after the drop is pointless' thing? I'd like to see that as a concept tbh, I wonder if it would change anything.

I certainly agree that Baron does the better job of presenting the drop in the best way, because that theming is gorgeous, but the psychological build up to plummeting into oblivion is still yet to be beaten bar the original for me.

I know it's not a Dive machine but Mystery Mine at Dollywood saves the best for last and it throws a couple of inversions to end with a bang after the big boy drop.

 

[Heth]

Of the 4 dive coastersive done, despite being the shortest drop I found the build up to Baron's drop the most exciting, which in turn made it my favourite.

 

[nadroJ]

I know it's not a Dive machine but Mystery Mine at Dollywood saves the best for last and it throws a couple of inversions to end with a bang after the big boy drop.

That’s a really good point - the EuroFighters do a really good job of making a ‘thing’ of the lift hill so you can have the main drop wherever in the layout really.

 

[Ethan]

I love both Baron and Oblivion. I do think as beautiful as Baron is, Oblivion is much more impactful. For me, Oblivion has a great drop but it's amplified by the depth of the tunnel, the point of entry, and how the area where the pit is is cut into the hillside. It just feels so intimidating. I rode it again this week and I just don't think the drop on Baron has that "oh god this is intense" magic that Oblivion has.

 

[chainedbanana]

Or maybe Krake is just better than them both?

 

[bladeboy]

I think Oblivion at its peak was really very good. It was designed to be about the drop and everything was planned to accentuate that. The horizontal chain on the turn at the top of the lift hill to prolong the time it takes to get to the edge. The holding drop (that used to hold for much longer). The Don’t Look Down voiceover (now gone). The misty tunnel (that used to be more misty).

Oblivion is a product of its time and the fact that it was genuinely a big deal. I recall there being genuine hype and excitement for the coaster. I vaguely remember them having an actor at the construction site during 1997.

The coaster reeks of the 90s and as much as I love it, I think a re-theme is overdue. A whole re-theme of X Sector -the originally planned steampunk theme looked good. I know B&M aren’t fans of ride modifications but I think a backwards vertical drop would genuinely be terrifying.

 

[MouseAT]

[Oblivion's] horizontal chain on the turn at the top of the lift hill to prolong the time it takes to get to the edge.

I think a lot of people overlook this as something uniquely effective, and unique to Oblivion. None of the other dive machines have this, not even G5, and it makes a difference. There's something about the slow, methodical, relentless creep towards the top of the drop on Oblivion that's missing from the other dive machines I've ridden. The others start building up speed as they leave the lift hill, only to suddenly slam the brakes on shortly before they reach the holding brake. It's a minor thing, but noticeable when you've experienced both.