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Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attractions

Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

He has some sort of multiple personality disorder.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

^No he has!
Brookes said:
So say this proposal actually goes ahead and these rides are on reduced operating hours, when will the average person find out Air isn't open until 11? I'd say it's pretty darn likely it'll be at about 5 past 10 when they run to Air excited to ride and get to the entrance to see: "This ride isn't open until 11 o'clock".

It'll be more like 10:15 due to the fact the Skyride will be shut ;)

Then they arrive and go on Rita/Nemesis instead. They have the general faff until 11:00. It really isn't breaking people's legs and ripping off their eyelids.

Brookes said:
In my opinion it's all about compromise. Yes they may need to reduce their overhead costs but their proposal of closing the SkyRide was just ludicrous in the health and safety mad world we now live in.

I still don't understand why??? The Skyride could catch fire tomorrow and be out of action for an entire season. Does the park then shut down because "we live in a health and safety mad world"? The park does not have to provide the Skyride for any reason at all.

Brookes said:
Reduced opening times of the whole park is ok if you actually give people enough time to get there and enjoy their day.

Which on off-peak days everyone would have. Empty park, no queues and more riding than on a full peak day. It would have only mattered to people who like to grab an extra 20 or 30 goes on Nemesis in the last hour. Again, the vocal complainers who pay the least.

Brookes said:
Their latest try - the one this topic is about - is problematic for me for one reason; they've blatantly picked rides with highest running cost despite the inconvenience to people. I know furie you say that we should just put by this inconvenience but it's unnecessary.

It isn't though. Reduced operations or the park closes. A small inconvenience now to ensure the future of the park.

Brookes said:
I'm sure people would have less of a problem if just one area of the park wasn't open until 11, then as someone put on the page before you wouldn't have to trawl from Forbidden Valley to Dark Forest then to X-Sector before being able to ride Air. But they've gone for the biggest reduction they can without thinking about their customers at all. I'm sure you'll agree, being someone who visits a lot like myself, the busiest ride at 10 o'clock is either Air or Thirteen, of which neither will now be open at that time.

That's a good idea though, having an area down until later. That's the compromise we want :) I still don't think there's enough of a problem in just the odd rides (especially considering that The Rapids and Flume have been running on 11:00 opening for years) having late opening. It's not like you're going to stand around for ten minutes after queueing for Rita thinking "shall we wait until 11:00 or go home, it's a full 10 minutes and nobody ever wants a cup of coffee or the toilet or anything between rides".

Brookes said:
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is u-turned just like the other things have been after enough people have complained on Facebook. Is it good for the park though? No. They should stick by their decisions, but these decisions should be made with the customer and the future of the park in mind, not just the latter.

It has to be the latter though. A company in a dire situation has to look towards how they can get through until tomorrow. I agree they shouldn't back down, and they shouldn't have backed down at any point prior to this. They need to work incredibly hard in the coming months and off season to ensure that the customers are given something. Preferably next year we'll see them working harder on better pricing and customer satisfaction.

I do agree with everything you say about the general "problem" and I agree with Hyde too that you shouldn't be trying to get yourself out of a fix now that you led yourself into through mismanagement, mis-marketing and greed. If those are the reasons for reduced gate figures (I'd like to get a feel for how FL, LWV and PBB are fairing at the moment for comparison).

It's just that simply something has to be done, and whatever they do is going to upset somebody. At some point they have to bite the bullet and piss people off. They don't want to, but have to.

Of course, if they'd ever accepted me onto their customer council none of this would ever have happened ;) :p
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Is there actually any proof of this "reduced gate" issue or is that just the assumption?

We'll get the figures published well after the event, so it will be interesting to come back to this in retrospect and see if they were in the horrendous financial difficulty some people are claiming, or whether they're actually just a bunch of dirty, evil, robbing bastards.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

The TEA/AECOM 2011 figures show a drop of 5.5% in gate figures during 2011 at Alton Towers and "hearsay" is that gate figures are still well down this year too. Obviously we can't confirm that until next year, but last year's figures, along with these emergency measures do suggest it's reactionary to economics rather than money grabbing.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

From Monday 18th June the following rides will not open until 11am:

Air, Th13teen, Duel, Congo River Rapids, The Flume, Battle Galleons, Skyride, Driving School, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
Of those, the big two annoyances for me are Air and Th13teen. I tend to avoid Forbidden Valley until later in the day, but I know a lot of people like to ride Nemesis and Air first thing on a morning. Th13teen annoys me simply because it's useful for soaking up queues in the Dark Forest area so that I don't have to wait as long for Rita.

furie said:
People want as much as possible for as little as possible, but a business just can't run that way, it has to be profitable. If it isn't, then they have to cut costs and yes, visitors may be inconvenienced, but tough.
The thing is, Merlin have been treating their customers like **** for a while now. High (and ever increasing) gate prices, restrictions on the annual pass, parking costs etc. have been the order of the day for the last few years, and then on top of that you have a crippled bus service to/from Stoke and reductions to operations inside the park to try to offset the reduced visitor numbers that follow. Thorpe seems keen to annoy me too, with their "families only" policy on the rapids and the dropping of single rider on Stealth, so it's not just Alton with problems.

Sure they may try to save a buck in the short term, but it could very well blow up in their faces. Inconvenienced customers get pissed off, pissed off customers stop going.

I've dropped my Merlin annual pass this season simply because I'm sick of all the crap. I've not paid to get into a single Merlin attraction this year. I went to Thorpe before last year's annual pass expired to get The Swarm cred, and will give the other parks a miss. There are plenty of other parks in the UK and in Europe that I want to do, so I'll just focus on those instead. Maybe I'll venture back to Alton next year to check out the new coaster, maybe not - I didn't bother with Saw in the opening year because Thorpe was being so dire that season. Knowing Merlin it'll be another half assed effort that they can market easily, rather than actually being good.

So now instead of making money from me this season (on buses, park food and annual pass), they'll lose out significantly because I won't be spending anything on their parks for at least a year or so. Going by the fact that their gate numbers are down, I can't be the only one.

They're in a dangerous position - can their cuts to operations offset the reduction in attendance that will likely result from it? They might find themselves digging a bigger hole here. Surely they need more people through the gates, not less?
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

furie said:
Brookes said:
In my opinion it's all about compromise. Yes they may need to reduce their overhead costs but their proposal of closing the SkyRide was just ludicrous in the health and safety mad world we now live in.

I still don't understand why??? The Skyride could catch fire tomorrow and be out of action for an entire season. Does the park then shut down because "we live in a health and safety mad world"? The park does not have to provide the Skyride for any reason at all.
Well, it was closed for much of last year anyway while they changed to the new carriages.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Oh yes, the Skyride. That reminds me - although I personally don't use it much I know a lot of people will use it when they arrive to quickly get across park - if it's not open, that's not going to make a good first impression. If people start the day on a high, it's going to take a lot to drag the mood down, conversely if they start the day in a foul mood because "Alton can't be arsed with running their rides and attractions" it's going to take a while for them to recover from that.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Not opening those rides till 11 makes perfect sense to me...
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Im happy with Pleasure Beach and Drayton Manor, I really couldn't care less if I didn't go to Alton this year at all, that theme park just annoys me now. If you have me on facebook you would know how much a hate that mess of a park.
 
I hate this reduced ride time stuff but many parks in Europe and even the USA do it.

But I think they have to look more into what's wrong with the place and why people have stopped going.

It is expensive to go from the south there, it used to have the best rides so people went but Thorpe has newer rides and more thrilling rides.

Maybe going the family park route has not helped Alton as they are losing the older teens market.

Cost of fuel has effected it for sure.

But if they put in a top ride or coaster people would go there. The marketing team needs sorting out as well.

The park is old and tbh maybe people are fed up with riding the same things they rode 10 years ago. What is the point spending £200 for the same rides?
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

I hate to break the news, but the Acorn character has been removed from the Ice Age line up. Hotel entertainment has been cut back as well, and Wobble World will open from 12PM - 4PM.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Maybe this is the come down from a weakening Euro and higher cost of fuel meaning those that spent the last five or so years choosing to holiday domestically are now starting to go further afield and start flying away for a break instead?

May only be a contributing factor but it's possible.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Oh, Shock, Horror! they've tried something new because everything else they try to do to minimise overheads get's thrown out the window.

This isn't that bad at all imo!
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Smithy, that works if it has affected all the UK parks similarly. We only know about Alton though, so I'm very interested in knowing if the whole of the UK is affected by a drop in numbers, or just the Merlin attractions (just found numbers for Legoland and Thorpe and last year LLW was static in numbers and Thorpe had a growth of 2.7%).

As MouseAT and Marc have said, they aren't offering enough in terms of what they present to the customers and often mis-market what they have. So it's been a few years of pissing of customers and not understanding what they want and then having problems because they've suddenly got a high churn rate.

I think it's kind of linked to what Marc has said about being too family based. The problem is that it's a massively expensive day out for a family, made more expensive by the constant money grabbing. So families just find somewhere else to go. Alton Towers is a great treat for your kids, but most of them are just as happy with a day in the woods and an adventure playground for free.

They tried to focus on thrill seekers by lying about Thirteen being a thrill ride. If they'd actually made a thrill ride or sold it as a family ride then they wouldn't have further alienated the thrill seeker element of their customer base.

Again, the other issue is that the park is actually a very bad family park. I've been saying this for about 5 or 6 years now. It's a poor family attraction because a family cannot spend the day together compromising the rides they go on. In Forbidden Valley while the adults have a 1 hour queue for air, what do little Billy and Jane go on? Blade 50 times? No, they have to head to Katanga Kanyon and then you have to try and arrange somewhere to meet up when the grown ups eventually get off their ride.

Look around the park, how many areas have enough rides to satisfy both thrill seekers and kids for roughly the same amount of time? It's all "thrill area" and "child area" vastly separated. You can of course send Granny and Grandpa off with the kids while the grown ups play, but at £40+ per ticket for Granny and Grandpa, they don't want to come and play the baby sitting game anymore.

So you end up with the family going and either the adults feeling it's a ripoff because they paid so much and only got on one or two big rides due to looking after the kids. Or the they feel ripped off because the kids spent hours sitting around waiting. Or they feel ripped off because the family couldn't physically spend the day together. I believe it's the middle to be honest, because when Alton is busy, most of the kid's areas are pretty empty. They've invested in everything for "families", forgetting they're charging for a "thrill park" and that's what people expect. It's a mixed message and it's been failing for years.

So yeah, they're losing family visitors because they isolate families and they're losing thrill visitors because they're not giving enough for them to justify returning.

It's just a mess and now they have to do this reduced opening to try and get themselves out of it.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

furie said:
It'll be more like 10:15 due to the fact the Skyride will be shut ;)

Then they arrive and go on Rita/Nemesis instead. They have the general faff until 11:00. It really isn't breaking people's legs and ripping off their eyelids.

Well someone may have told them the shortcut. :wink:

Joking aside my point was that Alton never properly inform their customers of these changes. I saw a comment on the Facebook page saying that they were never told about the £6 car parking charge until they got there. They don't tell you about these things until you get there when they sting you. This works for first visits yes, but will people come back?

furie said:
I still don't understand why??? The Skyride could catch fire tomorrow and be out of action for an entire season. Does the park then shut down because "we live in a health and safety mad world"? The park does not have to provide the Skyride for any reason at all.

It's the whole disabled access thing. Make it harder for disabled people to get around the park and you're perceived to be discriminating. Sure I rarely use the Skyride but it always has a large queue, especially at the Cloud Cuckoo Land station and with the geography that Alton has I think it's quite correct to offer that service especially when part of your target market is young families who will have pushchairs etc.

furie said:
Which on off-peak days everyone would have. Empty park, no queues and more riding than on a full peak day. It would have only mattered to people who like to grab an extra 20 or 30 goes on Nemesis in the last hour. Again, the vocal complainers who pay the least.

Yeah but we're not in off-peak days now are we. We're into school trip season and soon the height of summer when the park is going to be busier than ever.

I totally agree with the above point of how they have gone the wrong way down the family route and there are some very valid points there about how you can't have a proper family day out there. Hopefully next year's coaster should reestablish that thrill seeker market. I don't think the ride choices of the past few years have been wrong; the marketing and the decisions of the people above have been the problem.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

Brookes said:
It's the whole disabled access thing. Make it harder for disabled people to get around the park and you're perceived to be discriminating. Sure I rarely use the Skyride but it always has a large queue, especially at the Cloud Cuckoo Land station and with the geography that Alton has I think it's quite correct to offer that service especially when part of your target market is young families who will have pushchairs etc.

Stafford Borough Council doesn't have a disabled/pushchair transport system to get from the bottom of Stafford Castle to the top either. Are they seen as discriminating or just "well, it doesn't have one, sometimes life sucks".

I've pushed both wheelchairs and pushchairs around the park. It really isn't the end of the world when the Skyride isn't working. Like, seriously, it's a none issue and I don't know why people are so up in arms about it. If I can manage it and still have a good day, what is the problem?

Brookes said:
Yeah but we're not in off-peak days now are we. We're into school trip season and soon the height of summer when the park is going to be busier than ever.

Only because the cost saving during off-peak was moaned about so much and rescinded. It's a case of "well done to everyone complaining, you've managed to get Alton to back down on things that would have made little to no impact on quiet days to very few people and instead forced them to make decisions that will now impact everyone on busy days". So, congratulations on the complaining, you've only brought it on yourself due to being selfish about something maybe upsetting you whoring the park for free. Give yourselves a round of applause.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

furie said:
Smithy, that works if it has affected all the UK parks similarly. We only know about Alton though, so I'm very interested in knowing if the whole of the UK is affected by a drop in numbers, or just the Merlin attractions (just found numbers for Legoland and Thorpe and last year LLW was static in numbers and Thorpe had a growth of 2.7%).
Strange that Legoland was static, with the Atlantis ride opening. I would have thought that would be a big deal. However, I notice that Legoland is actually closed a lot during off-season. Maybe that accounts for static figures?

As MouseAT and Marc have said, they aren't offering enough in terms of what they present to the customers and often mis-market what they have. So it's been a few years of pissing of customers and not understanding what they want and then having problems because they've suddenly got a high churn rate.
I agree with this - Alton seem to have lost their way. Once upon a time, it was an essential day out every year but not so much anymore. Thinking about the biggest attractions, like Nemesis, Oblivion, Air, The Rapids... they were all installed years ago in one big momentous push when the owners seemed to have vision.

The new rides are big but gimmicky - there's not much to Rita after the launch, not much to Thirteen at all. Are they worth the long drive, long queues, and high prices? Not for many.

Again, the other issue is that the park is actually a very bad family park. I've been saying this for about 5 or 6 years now. It's a poor family attraction because a family cannot spend the day together compromising the rides they go on. In Forbidden Valley while the adults have a 1 hour queue for air, what do little Billy and Jane go on? Blade 50 times? No, they have to head to Katanga Kanyon and then you have to try and arrange somewhere to meet up when the grown ups eventually get off their ride.

Look around the park, how many areas have enough rides to satisfy both thrill seekers and kids for roughly the same amount of time? It's all "thrill area" and "child area" vastly separated. You can of course send Granny and Grandpa off with the kids while the grown ups play, but at £40+ per ticket for Granny and Grandpa, they don't want to come and play the baby sitting game anymore.
Yeah, I made my first visit to Chessington this year and (although it's got a few problems) the fact there's a kids ride next to nearly every "thrill" ride is pretty good. I can see it being a good offer for families.

So yeah, they're losing family visitors because they isolate families and they're losing thrill visitors because they're not giving enough for them to justify returning.
It seems to me the point where it went wrong was building the hotel. It probably made good business sense at the time (maybe still does) but it's why the park had to focus on families rather than continue with the thrill rides - because thrill riders won't be going to the hotel.

It's this rush to make everywhere a "resort" instead of focusing on what made the place a success in the first place that could be all these parks undoing.
 
I was reading a news article this morning about how there may be an increase in tourists coming to the UK for the Olympics, there's also been a significant decrease in tourists visiting the UK this year for other reasons - people don't want to put up with the hassle of dealing with all the chaos the Olympics will cause.

Given the good Euro exchange rate, would it be surprising if a lot of potential UK customers are getting out of the UK to avoid the Olympic chaos (and being short on cash as a result)? Given that Alton hasn't added anything significant this year, there's not a lot of incentive visit this season.
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

I don't honestly get why the bother opening mid week until the season picks up, anyway. The American parks don't start opening mid week until this time of year, really.

I think opening later in the morning is better than closing earlier. But I think that should be generalised anyway. I'd prefer it if parks year round were 11-7 instead of 10-6, and I'm damn sure most other people would too. And I'm sure the parks would make more from food sales that way, too. But what do I know.

It's POINTLESS having a ride open with like 3 people on it. The opening of certain rides later allows the park to fill up and people to get over to those rides. The ONLY people it sucks for are the full time staff who need the money. NO one else is effected. They aren't doing this on peak days, they aren't compromising your ability to ride everything a sh!tton of times. The parks are dead, that's why they are doing it.

What is the big deal?

As for the Olympics... I never understood why anyone thought it would increase tourism to the UK this year. Why on earth would anyone, unless going to one of the games which is a minority of people, choose to visit London when the Olympics are on? Why? And from what I heard, every time whatever country hosts has less tourists than expected and wastes a tonne of money on accommodating crowds which never turn up. Flight sales to the UK are down. Hotel bookings are not matching what was expected. Shock horror!
 
Re: Alton Towers shorten opening hours of certain attraction

I understand that they need to reduce costs, but the rides they are closing for it make no sense! Both Air and Thirteen always attract a crowd, if they were determined to close one of the main coasters surely oblivion would be the most logical, seeing as it always has the shortest queue. Then with closing Deul, Congo Rapids and the Flume, they are seriously reducing the amount of family rides open! Thankfully their new opening hours shouldn't effect my plans of Oblivion, Submission, Hex, then Rita and Thirteen.
 
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