Alton Towers' Galactica VR coaster/Rollercoaster Restaurant
- Thread starter Alex23
- Start date
Darren B
Giga Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Show us then; because all anyone's ever seen since we've known you is hot air. You keep on telling us that you'll prove us wrong but you've never once given an indication that this theme park exists beyond a logo.
We don't want you to fail at life, Erol, we really don't. We just get fed up when you keep on promising these lavish dreams will come true and they NEVER do. How about go about it quietly until you've actually achieved something of any note?
Screaming Coasters said:
Show us then; because all anyone's ever seen since we've known you is hot air. You keep on telling us that you'll prove us wrong but you've never once given an indication that this theme park exists beyond a logo.
We don't want you to fail at life, Erol, we really don't. We just get fed up when you keep on promising these lavish dreams will come true and they NEVER do. How about go about it quietly until you've actually achieved something of any note?
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
If this is vr then surely they'd run it the same as Europa? So it's not like everyone that rides is wearing a headset?
Also, wouldn't the cleaning process be the same as a 3D attraction like Ratatouille or Spiderman? They handle more guests in a quicker flow than Air.
Basically Erol, calm down, they got this.... If it is indeed vr headsets.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
If this is vr then surely they'd run it the same as Europa? So it's not like everyone that rides is wearing a headset?
Also, wouldn't the cleaning process be the same as a 3D attraction like Ratatouille or Spiderman? They handle more guests in a quicker flow than Air.
Basically Erol, calm down, they got this.... If it is indeed vr headsets.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
spicy
Giga Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
This may sound stupid but having never worn one I'm curious to how immersive and real it feels.
Like is it just a fixed screening or do they have 360 video? So if I look to my right/left/up/down the screen changes accordingly. Or is it not that advanced?
This may sound stupid but having never worn one I'm curious to how immersive and real it feels.
Like is it just a fixed screening or do they have 360 video? So if I look to my right/left/up/down the screen changes accordingly. Or is it not that advanced?
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Having been on the one at Europa, I can confirm that they give a full 360 degree image. In Europa's film, you leave the coaster track mid-ride and start to ride a dragon. I turned my head round at this point to have a look behind and you could see the dragon's tail and the landscape behind.
Europa's example was very good, much better than I was expecting. The VR headset was quite obviously a smartphone stuck into a very cushioned and comfortable headband. I would have concerns about such a system falling off on anything larger than a mine train however.
I think someone told me that they use the camera in the phone to gauge where your car is on the track/what direction you are facing and to keep the video in sync with the riders. When you get into the car they tell you to face front straight away. I obviously cocked it up because when I sat down, my video was initially flipped so that I only got the front view when facing behind and the ride op had to fiddle with it to get it into the correct starting configuration.
The Europa concept was a cartoon graphic. I imagine that this cuts down on processing demands compared to a real life 3D image. That would be another step up I guess. I imagine that a dedicated system as opposed to a smart phone would be able to handle a higher level of processing/faster rendering?
Overall it was a solid experience and the idea worked really well with the movement of the train. I like the idea, but as a coaster enthusiastic I think it detracts from the primary purpose of the ride. I see it as a bit of a gimmick tbh. It's interesting to see the advent of new technology, but I think, really, VR would be better placed in a simulator-style ride and prefer the coasters to be just left as coasters.
Having been on the one at Europa, I can confirm that they give a full 360 degree image. In Europa's film, you leave the coaster track mid-ride and start to ride a dragon. I turned my head round at this point to have a look behind and you could see the dragon's tail and the landscape behind.
Europa's example was very good, much better than I was expecting. The VR headset was quite obviously a smartphone stuck into a very cushioned and comfortable headband. I would have concerns about such a system falling off on anything larger than a mine train however.
I think someone told me that they use the camera in the phone to gauge where your car is on the track/what direction you are facing and to keep the video in sync with the riders. When you get into the car they tell you to face front straight away. I obviously cocked it up because when I sat down, my video was initially flipped so that I only got the front view when facing behind and the ride op had to fiddle with it to get it into the correct starting configuration.
The Europa concept was a cartoon graphic. I imagine that this cuts down on processing demands compared to a real life 3D image. That would be another step up I guess. I imagine that a dedicated system as opposed to a smart phone would be able to handle a higher level of processing/faster rendering?
Overall it was a solid experience and the idea worked really well with the movement of the train. I like the idea, but as a coaster enthusiastic I think it detracts from the primary purpose of the ride. I see it as a bit of a gimmick tbh. It's interesting to see the advent of new technology, but I think, really, VR would be better placed in a simulator-style ride and prefer the coasters to be just left as coasters.
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Having not done the Europa VR system, is there anything stopping a user from removing it mid ride and drop it? On a sit down powered coaster if it falls off, its just going to go into the train or out the side, but on Air, flying above the concourse?
Having not done the Europa VR system, is there anything stopping a user from removing it mid ride and drop it? On a sit down powered coaster if it falls off, its just going to go into the train or out the side, but on Air, flying above the concourse?
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Nope, there's nothing to stop you removing the Europa ones. Its just something you wear and tighten youself. But I think the system would have to be redesigned to be much more robust if it were to be used on Air.
Nope, there's nothing to stop you removing the Europa ones. Its just something you wear and tighten youself. But I think the system would have to be redesigned to be much more robust if it were to be used on Air.
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Yeah, I can imagine building it into the seat would be the only way to make it properly secure. Any kind of elaborate headrest coming over the top wouldn't give much room for comfortable movement on the ride though...
Yeah, I can imagine building it into the seat would be the only way to make it properly secure. Any kind of elaborate headrest coming over the top wouldn't give much room for comfortable movement on the ride though...
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
I agree with Erol on pretty much everything.
Sanitise them after every use? Evidence please!
There's a few reasons why I don't think they do... Or rather, a few reasons why I don't think whatever "sanitise" means it's good enough. Firstly, the cost of the headsets makes it unlikely that they own enough to waste time and money cleaning them. Secondly, how do they do it? The plastic 3D glasses go through industrial dishwashers, clearly these can't. Any dry cleaning methods are not only super expensive, but any physical grime on them doesn't get removed. If someone's snot or dribble or vomit gets on these, which it will, it's staying in the crevices until the end of time. I, like Erol, have first hand experience in dealing with the way body fluids get cleaned up at theme parks, and let me tell you, it's not good enough. The focus is entirely on antibacterialising and not actually removing the gross. If you spray antibac on vomit, it's still vomit. Same with UV cleaning. Everything you touch at a theme park is coated in layers of vomit and the idea of putting something like that on my face is a great big nope.
And this will make people vom, a lot. It just will.
It *will* cause delays.
It'll also be a H&S hazard and require some awkwardness to work around that. Sue's suggestion would not surprise me, but neither would some kind of "fix" that doesn't actually fix the H&S issue at all it's just more bullpoop in the way to slow it down.
I am not surprised that they want to do this at all, but it's dumb for all kinds of reasons.
I agree with Erol on pretty much everything.
Sanitise them after every use? Evidence please!
There's a few reasons why I don't think they do... Or rather, a few reasons why I don't think whatever "sanitise" means it's good enough. Firstly, the cost of the headsets makes it unlikely that they own enough to waste time and money cleaning them. Secondly, how do they do it? The plastic 3D glasses go through industrial dishwashers, clearly these can't. Any dry cleaning methods are not only super expensive, but any physical grime on them doesn't get removed. If someone's snot or dribble or vomit gets on these, which it will, it's staying in the crevices until the end of time. I, like Erol, have first hand experience in dealing with the way body fluids get cleaned up at theme parks, and let me tell you, it's not good enough. The focus is entirely on antibacterialising and not actually removing the gross. If you spray antibac on vomit, it's still vomit. Same with UV cleaning. Everything you touch at a theme park is coated in layers of vomit and the idea of putting something like that on my face is a great big nope.
And this will make people vom, a lot. It just will.
It *will* cause delays.
It'll also be a H&S hazard and require some awkwardness to work around that. Sue's suggestion would not surprise me, but neither would some kind of "fix" that doesn't actually fix the H&S issue at all it's just more bullpoop in the way to slow it down.
I am not surprised that they want to do this at all, but it's dumb for all kinds of reasons.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
For context, on Facebook I called out a couple of members on here for exaggerating the events of Thorpe's Face it Alone scare mazes... "And whipped. And spanked. And pissed on. And covered in **** and dirt and spunk. Oh and I had to Jack someone off...." To which I said "Obviously you weren't actually harmed, nor were you covered in real body fluids, nor did you have to actually jack off a real dick (snip) There's no way it would be legal for various reasons." to which Lofty replied "It is legal. Says numerous solicitors involved in extreme attractions." Yeah, it's legal to simulate or faux those things. Clearly actually pissing on or hitting someone wouldn't make it through HSE, nor would actual sexual harassment, and I was commenting on the way in which you lot were wording stuff to exaggerate or make it out to be legitimately terrifying. Though I do believe there's a "where's the line? Is simulated rape still rape?" philosophical question to be asked here! But that's a discussion for another day... Anyway, back to the point...
Like I said in my previous message, Lofty, those standards are pretty minimal. HSE is, like everything else, a contradictory mess of tick boxing that doesn't make a lot of sense on a case by case basis. I mean, think about it. Washing glasses between uses, but not the restraints that people's disgusting faces touch all day? How much dribble would you guess coats the average OTSR, because I'd wager it's enough to produce a clone army. The methods used to clean up definite body fluid is all about antibacterialising it rather than actually cleaning it up properly. If you put those headsets in a UV cleaning machine coated in vom, the vom doesn't magically vanish, it just becomes "not a health hazard". It's still vom. It's still **** gross.
Take height restrictions at park as evidence that HSE is minimal and that Erol is right, its up to parks to make their own decisions. You'd think height restrictions were down to the manufacturer, wouldn't you? But go to any manufacturer site and you won't find them. I'm sure they must offer "recommendations", but it's up to parks to decide. That's why Rattlesnake at Chessington, for example, is 1.4M whilst they are 1.2M everywhere else. That's why there's an Enterprise at Cedar Point with a restriction of 54" (1.37M) whilst pretty much all of the others are .9m (35").
But having your staff piss on or cause harm to guests in a scare maze doesn't have to go through the same rigmarole?Lofty said:
For context, on Facebook I called out a couple of members on here for exaggerating the events of Thorpe's Face it Alone scare mazes... "And whipped. And spanked. And pissed on. And covered in **** and dirt and spunk. Oh and I had to Jack someone off...." To which I said "Obviously you weren't actually harmed, nor were you covered in real body fluids, nor did you have to actually jack off a real dick (snip) There's no way it would be legal for various reasons." to which Lofty replied "It is legal. Says numerous solicitors involved in extreme attractions." Yeah, it's legal to simulate or faux those things. Clearly actually pissing on or hitting someone wouldn't make it through HSE, nor would actual sexual harassment, and I was commenting on the way in which you lot were wording stuff to exaggerate or make it out to be legitimately terrifying. Though I do believe there's a "where's the line? Is simulated rape still rape?" philosophical question to be asked here! But that's a discussion for another day... Anyway, back to the point...
Like I said in my previous message, Lofty, those standards are pretty minimal. HSE is, like everything else, a contradictory mess of tick boxing that doesn't make a lot of sense on a case by case basis. I mean, think about it. Washing glasses between uses, but not the restraints that people's disgusting faces touch all day? How much dribble would you guess coats the average OTSR, because I'd wager it's enough to produce a clone army. The methods used to clean up definite body fluid is all about antibacterialising it rather than actually cleaning it up properly. If you put those headsets in a UV cleaning machine coated in vom, the vom doesn't magically vanish, it just becomes "not a health hazard". It's still vom. It's still **** gross.
Take height restrictions at park as evidence that HSE is minimal and that Erol is right, its up to parks to make their own decisions. You'd think height restrictions were down to the manufacturer, wouldn't you? But go to any manufacturer site and you won't find them. I'm sure they must offer "recommendations", but it's up to parks to decide. That's why Rattlesnake at Chessington, for example, is 1.4M whilst they are 1.2M everywhere else. That's why there's an Enterprise at Cedar Point with a restriction of 54" (1.37M) whilst pretty much all of the others are .9m (35").
Jarrett
Most Obnoxious Member 2016
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Removed - Let's keep the discussion on topic. Hixee
Back on topic, I'm fully aware that VR isn't perfect. My friend Jenny said the Valravn VR app gives her a headache and she can't see the 3D at all. There are the sanitation issues that Erol brought up. It could cause problems in the event of an evac. Some people might get claustrophobic (I already dislike this about flyers) with their chest, ankles, and head bound in the flyer restraints.
One thing I can't help but wonder about is calibration. In order to properly provide a visual, the headset needs to rely on an accelerometer to know which way it's been pitched to show the virtual environment from the correct angle. The issue of these headsets falling out of calibration from the rapid forces generated by the ride and wearer might not sync the view up perfectly until it gets absolutely nailed. The thought of Air being the coaster to get this (especially with a Mack mine train in the same park) brings up a potential solution to this issue. When the cars assume flying position, it creates the same transfer of forces in the same pattern every single time. When this happens, the accelerometer could take a reading from the wearer's head and compare it to the set forces it would experience looking forward, allowing it to recalibrate the view every time the seats are pulled up.
This concept has 99 problems but if I'm onto something, maybe calibration ain't one. :?
Removed - Let's keep the discussion on topic. Hixee
Back on topic, I'm fully aware that VR isn't perfect. My friend Jenny said the Valravn VR app gives her a headache and she can't see the 3D at all. There are the sanitation issues that Erol brought up. It could cause problems in the event of an evac. Some people might get claustrophobic (I already dislike this about flyers) with their chest, ankles, and head bound in the flyer restraints.
One thing I can't help but wonder about is calibration. In order to properly provide a visual, the headset needs to rely on an accelerometer to know which way it's been pitched to show the virtual environment from the correct angle. The issue of these headsets falling out of calibration from the rapid forces generated by the ride and wearer might not sync the view up perfectly until it gets absolutely nailed. The thought of Air being the coaster to get this (especially with a Mack mine train in the same park) brings up a potential solution to this issue. When the cars assume flying position, it creates the same transfer of forces in the same pattern every single time. When this happens, the accelerometer could take a reading from the wearer's head and compare it to the set forces it would experience looking forward, allowing it to recalibrate the view every time the seats are pulled up.
This concept has 99 problems but if I'm onto something, maybe calibration ain't one. :?
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Few things to think about re these headsets.
1. You will not get a headache. You're wearing it for about four minutes. Unless you have really sensitive eyes, brain and a nervous system, it will not make you will. If it does, then perhaps you should not be riding a coaster in the first place.
2. Hygiene. Yes, this disturbs me. However, at Europa they make it very evident that they are sanitised between rides. They do hand your headset to the next rider in the queue. You are given a clean one, you wear it, you hand it back and they give the next rider a clean one. If they are using 10 headsets, they will have 20-something in play to ensure adequate sterilising time. I can't vouch that Alton Towers will follow the same procedure but I hope they do.
3. The tech. I've been to trade shows, industry parties and conferences where the tech is on on display and available for demonstration. In Hong Kong last year I met the company who are supplying the headsets to "several parks" and tried them out. They are a highly recognised brand with a lot of capital behind them; they are the best in the business. All tech fails at some point but the reliability on these will be at the top end of the scale. The image portrayed will only be as good as what the video suppliers can produce. Collaboration is not a problem. When I tried it in HK, I went nuts with it - I jumped, spun around quickly and shock my head rapidly - the image responded to my actions.
It's still a gimmick however you look at it although very much good fun for a one off or occasional go.
Few things to think about re these headsets.
1. You will not get a headache. You're wearing it for about four minutes. Unless you have really sensitive eyes, brain and a nervous system, it will not make you will. If it does, then perhaps you should not be riding a coaster in the first place.
2. Hygiene. Yes, this disturbs me. However, at Europa they make it very evident that they are sanitised between rides. They do hand your headset to the next rider in the queue. You are given a clean one, you wear it, you hand it back and they give the next rider a clean one. If they are using 10 headsets, they will have 20-something in play to ensure adequate sterilising time. I can't vouch that Alton Towers will follow the same procedure but I hope they do.
3. The tech. I've been to trade shows, industry parties and conferences where the tech is on on display and available for demonstration. In Hong Kong last year I met the company who are supplying the headsets to "several parks" and tried them out. They are a highly recognised brand with a lot of capital behind them; they are the best in the business. All tech fails at some point but the reliability on these will be at the top end of the scale. The image portrayed will only be as good as what the video suppliers can produce. Collaboration is not a problem. When I tried it in HK, I went nuts with it - I jumped, spun around quickly and shock my head rapidly - the image responded to my actions.
It's still a gimmick however you look at it although very much good fun for a one off or occasional go.
SilverArrow
Certified Ride Geek
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
Wonder whether if the headsets don't work (similar to how some of the guns don't work on the dark rides) whether they could have issues with people trying to take them off mid ride.
Wonder whether if the headsets don't work (similar to how some of the guns don't work on the dark rides) whether they could have issues with people trying to take them off mid ride.
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
My headset didn't work the first time I rode the VR coaster at Europa. So I took it off and swapped it with the person next to me. I bet that happens quite often with it. You could easily remove it on a ride like the mine train.
Unless they build them into the restraints, I don't see how these headsets will be durable on Air. They felt quite delicate.
As much as the VR coasters are a fun new twist on a coaster, they seem to be more hassle than they're worth - judging by my experience on the Europa one. It's a lot of cleaning and trusting tech in your guests hands, for relatively little payoff. I mean, you can't really market adding VR as a new ride. It's like the Windows upgrade that no one needs that makes your computer go all slow. I appreciate the gesture, but would rather Alton put the money into themeing the Air tunnel / surrounding Air-ea!
My headset didn't work the first time I rode the VR coaster at Europa. So I took it off and swapped it with the person next to me. I bet that happens quite often with it. You could easily remove it on a ride like the mine train.
Unless they build them into the restraints, I don't see how these headsets will be durable on Air. They felt quite delicate.
As much as the VR coasters are a fun new twist on a coaster, they seem to be more hassle than they're worth - judging by my experience on the Europa one. It's a lot of cleaning and trusting tech in your guests hands, for relatively little payoff. I mean, you can't really market adding VR as a new ride. It's like the Windows upgrade that no one needs that makes your computer go all slow. I appreciate the gesture, but would rather Alton put the money into themeing the Air tunnel / surrounding Air-ea!
Screaming Coasters
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
I think Serena's last comment has hit it on the nail here and that was a good post.
I think for a little while its going to have a relatively good uptake just to try it out, but further than the 2016 season, I don't feel it will have a place / the uptake to keep the technology fresh.
The trouble is with rides is that it'll have a one experience concept, even if lets say, there are multiple worlds you can view. The fact that you aren't physically doing anything with that world other than watching it, shortens its longevity for the user.
This is a fine example of Merlin and a quick buck.
VR rooms work extremely well because they're aimed at cinema goers and gamers who play in the different worlds. On rides, I'm not so sure..
I think Serena's last comment has hit it on the nail here and that was a good post.
I think for a little while its going to have a relatively good uptake just to try it out, but further than the 2016 season, I don't feel it will have a place / the uptake to keep the technology fresh.
The trouble is with rides is that it'll have a one experience concept, even if lets say, there are multiple worlds you can view. The fact that you aren't physically doing anything with that world other than watching it, shortens its longevity for the user.
This is a fine example of Merlin and a quick buck.
VR rooms work extremely well because they're aimed at cinema goers and gamers who play in the different worlds. On rides, I'm not so sure..
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
To be fair, if I owned a park, VR would be one novelty I'd like to offer my guests, if only for a couple of years. I wouldn't put it on a large coaster though.
VR has a real buzz about it atm and most people haven't tried it yet. I think it would attract people to the park just to try it. But once VR game consoles come out and everyone's had a go, it'll be pointless.
To be fair, if I owned a park, VR would be one novelty I'd like to offer my guests, if only for a couple of years. I wouldn't put it on a large coaster though.
VR has a real buzz about it atm and most people haven't tried it yet. I think it would attract people to the park just to try it. But once VR game consoles come out and everyone's had a go, it'll be pointless.
Screaming Coasters
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
It won't be pointless at all. The Out of Home Entertainment industry is HUGE and VR is going to play a major part in this as the technologies for home use won't be nearly as expensive as what you'd find in a park, which allows for other experiences such as The Void.
Sue, thats like saying everybody has a TV so there is no use for the cinema. There will always be something kept back that you just can't experience at home and never will experience at home especially when the likes of Dell, Alienware Occulus Rift all have invested interest in Out of Home Entertainment industry.
It won't be a buzz that will fade anytime soon for VR rooms, but I believe its just a fad when applied to a ride.
It won't be pointless at all. The Out of Home Entertainment industry is HUGE and VR is going to play a major part in this as the technologies for home use won't be nearly as expensive as what you'd find in a park, which allows for other experiences such as The Void.
Sue, thats like saying everybody has a TV so there is no use for the cinema. There will always be something kept back that you just can't experience at home and never will experience at home especially when the likes of Dell, Alienware Occulus Rift all have invested interest in Out of Home Entertainment industry.
It won't be a buzz that will fade anytime soon for VR rooms, but I believe its just a fad when applied to a ride.
Mysterious Sue
Strata Poster
Re: Alton Towers submits planning permission
I wasn't talking about VR rooms though. You just agreed with me that it'll be a fad in regards to coasters!
I wasn't talking about VR rooms though. You just agreed with me that it'll be a fad in regards to coasters!