Alton Towers 2013

[SaiyanHajime]

It's a map. It's primary purpose is for navigation.

You know the world doesn't work like that, I don't know why people are so hellbent on "it's called this therefore thats what it is".

Yes, it's a map. Yes, typical maps are used for navigation. Yes, some weird people feel the need to use a map at a theme park. But the MAJORITY of guests pick up a map thinking they will use it, and never do. The only time a map comes out is in a queue line or at lunch to see what to do next. They do not then get it back out to follow a path, with compass in tow and hiking boots on.

There is absolutely no need for Alton's map to be "easy to read" in map terms because about 5 people per day try to do that. The majority of guests go with the flow, and those who do need assistance ask passing staff if they care enough, but they mostly don't. Theme park toilets, rides and other facilities are not hard to find in the first place, the space is designed with guests in mind for christ sake. I know that guests ask before consulting maps int he majority of cases, because I rarely see guests examining maps outside of queues - and the only reason they even look there is through boredom.

I have a collection now of hundreds and hundreds of maps, and very, very few of them are navigationally useful. The ones which are are almost entirely small, low budget parks who don't have a clue what the hell they are doing.

Things change. Mobile phones are now more than phones, in fact, the primary use of my phone is now messaging and tapatalk. Does that mean it's no longer a phone? Of course not. The term "phone" has gained meaning.

The term "map" is no different. People hang maps on walls as decoration, people use them to navigate (mostly redundant in ALL forms with the rise of GPS), they are used as advertisements and... I can't think what else, but the point is that the term "map" doesn't mean "a diagram used exclusively for navigational purpose" like you lot seem to think it does, it actually just means "a representation of something".

 

[Mysterious Sue]

Yes ok, sometimes things are called a name that no longer applies because that product has evolved over time.
My argument is that a theme park map IS still used as a map. If you are in a park you are unfamiliar with (a situation which most of the public will be in because they don't visit as often as we do) then how do you find the toilets? How do you compare restaurants to find out where you want to eat? You look at the bloody map!! They have not evolved past the point of being a map!

You argument also falls down because you are assuming everyone loves and hoards maps like an enthusiast. This is just not true. The number of maps simply thrown to the floor as you leave a park surely suggests that people do not want to appreciate the artwork or keep them as a momento.

From my enthusiast point of view, I love to see a gorgeously, well-designed map - but it cannot comprise the primary function of being a map! Thorpe's is the worst because it has no decent artwork and bears absolutely no comparison to reality.

 

[Smithy]

Yes, some weird people feel the need to use a map at a theme park.

What's weird about using a map to navigate?

But the MAJORITY of guests pick up a map thinking they will use it, and never do.

You assume.

They do not then get it back out to follow a path, with compass in tow and hiking boots on.

Nobody here has suggested they do, you've just pushed to one extreme.

There is absolutely no need for Alton's map to be "easy to read" in map terms because about 5 people per day try to do that.

Again, you assume.

Theme park toilets, rides and other facilities are not hard to find in the first place, the space is designed with guests in mind for christ sake.

You're vastly underselling what you're trying to argue against, every theme park I've been to I've used the map to locate the nearest toilets.

I know that guests ask before consulting maps int he majority of cases, because I rarely see guests examining maps outside of queues - and the only reason they even look there is through boredom.

And again, another assumption.

Could they not be looking (as I do) to see what other ride is nearby once they're done? Could they not be looking (as I do) to see where the nearest food outlet or toilets are? Could they not be looking (as I do) to see the general direction they want to be heading in to do a certain ride?

I have a collection now of hundreds and hundreds of maps, and very, very few of them are navigationally useful. The ones which are are almost entirely small, low budget parks who don't have a clue what the hell they are doing.

Rubbish.

As long as they have the amenities listed, and the rides are roughly in the right location, then it has a (Note, a, not only) purpose for navigating. If you can look at the pretty map and see Ride A is on the left of the pretty drawing of where you're stood and Ride B is on the right, you know in which direction to head.

The term "map" is no different. People hang maps on walls as decoration, people use them to navigate (mostly redundant in ALL forms with the rise of GPS), they are used as advertisements and... I can't think what else, but the point is that the term "map" doesn't mean "a diagram used exclusively for navigational purpose" like you lot seem to think it does, it actually just means "a representation of something".

I'm confused with that, I've not seen anybody saying that it's purely for navigating, only people disagreeing with you seeming to state that it's categorically NOT for navigating.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I never said it's not for navigating, I said it wasn't it's primary function from a design perspective. This discussion blew out of people criticising Alton's map for being a messy confusion, but it does portray the park in basic terms. Smiler is near Oblivion, toilets are near Smiler, etc. People who state that the map is poor because it fails to correctly portray every minor detail and doesn't display the scale of the gardens are misunderstanding it's function. That's all I've argued.

Users think they will use the map to navigate and that's what it's for, and the park "sells" the concept as that to hide the fact that it's an advert.

And I don't assume, I know from observations and common sense. I have exaggerated for comedic effect, but trust me, the majority of guests do not use the map in the way which people seem to think they do.

 

[nadroJ]

I think people forget that Joey works in a park and watches guests pretty much all day whilst there, he (like anybody else who works at a park and is interested in this kind of thing) probably has a lot of personal visual evidence to back up what he is saying.

 

[Smithy]

It's the exaggerations that I was arguing against reading back.

 

[furie]

I know it's a burden, and disturbing the very interesting map discussion, but in response to Jordan's first post...

OPENING TIMES!!!
http://www.altontowers.com/useful-info/ ... erpark-mar

Sorry, let the serious and important discussion about maps continue

 

[nadroJ]

Hahaha, yay!

 

[Mysterious Sue]

An advert for what?

I don't get home from a park, pull out my map and pass it on to all my friends saying 'you should really go here', it's doing a 20% sale and BOGOF.

Stop being such an artist ;p

 

[SaiyanHajime]

An advert for what?

The attractions?

Look at the Alton map, Smiler is the biggest thing on there. Why? Because it's new. Each ride is trying to convey what it's about through the way it's portrayed, major rides are larger regardless of their actual dimensions. Areas of the park that most people are disinterested in are smaller (towers and gardens).

Why advertise to guests already in the park? To make sure they have a good time, go on rides which appeal to their tastes (and thus come off happy) and want to return. It's to maintain excitement throughout the day as they pull it out in a dull point during a queue to see what else is their cup of tea.

It's also an advertisement for events, bounceback tickets and annual passes and shows and yada yada yada. Plenty of maps have money off tickets on them.

Stop being such an artist ;p

NO! I need to save the world from horrible maps one park at a time!

I tell you who's maps are really fab but also are navigationally pretty good, Cedar Fair's. They tick all my boxes.

Opening times are pretty important... I forgive you Phil.

 

[Mysterious Sue]

I get what you're on about, but I think that 'advert' might be the wrong word.
That sort of implies that it's drawing you into the park, which doesn't make sense as you are already there.

The map can be used for 'up-selling' - giving you discounts to eat in certain restaurants (damn I hate having to tear a map up just to get a discount voucher!) and for giving you offers on return visits to encourage 'customer loyalty'...but none of that has anything to do with the quality of the map picture - it's all subsidiary.

Yes, obviously if you have a new ride you want to 'promote' it, but most people will know before they get to the park and they will damn well have big billboard ads to make you aware of it when you enter.

The map part of the map, is there to be a map.

 

[MouseAT]

Things change. Mobile phones are now more than phones, in fact, the primary use of my phone is now messaging and tapatalk. Does that mean it's no longer a phone? Of course not. The term "phone" has gained meaning.

See, the problem here is that we've lost functionality, not gained it. You're essentially saying that if I take away the ability to do "phone things" like make voice calls or send text messages from a smart phone, I still have a phone. Last time I checked, we don't refer to an iPod touch as a phone, even though it does most of the things an iPhone can do.

Semantics aside, you're never going to convince me that this is a successful map. Perhaps we're too used to Alton now, and forget how confusing the place can be. Perhaps we're all used to smaller or simpler parks that are easier to find your way around without using maps. Alton is a confusing mess, in that places that are adjacent to each other, or appear to be adjacent to each other actually aren't accessible from each other. For several years, the map managed to be artistic whilst still conveying which areas are connected to each other. The new map fails at this.

I'm not saying a map shouldn't be a work of art, but it should be able to function as navigation aid too. If your design team can't make it both, then they've failed.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

If your design team can't make it both, then they've failed.

Valid point, but I think in the case of Alton, it's impossible. There's just too much information that needs to be crammed into a small space.

Alton's layout really isn't as confusing as you may think. Off shoots and side paths are rarely explored by the public, and those who do use them aren't the kind to worry about getting lost. Guests don't really stray from main pathways, which is why Chessington's Griffon's Galleon is never, ever, ever busy. And despite it being on the map yet illusively hidden away, no one ever asks where it is, people just don't bother with it at all.

I remember visiting Alton for the first time, and I also remember it taking me like 7 or so years of annual visits to explore the place thoroughly and know all the shortcuts, but in those original years I still rode everything. There's really very little off the main loop-but-not-quite at Alton.

One thing I agree does suck about that map, and I dunno who first mentioned it, is how close Rita & Thirteen are to Air. It does, at a glance, look as though you can just cut across there... Ha, if only.

 

[Gavin]

I get what you're on about, but I think that 'advert' might be the wrong word.
That sort of implies that it's drawing you into the park, which doesn't make sense as you are already there.

In many, many instances park maps are used as a promotional leaflet that can be picked up outside the park. You have the general information on the outside (directions, prices, opening times etc.), but open it up and you get to see how much the place actually has to offer. When they're used like that (are there many park maps/leaflets that aren't like that these days?), they have to be visually appealing and sell the hell out of their product.

 

[Lottie.]

I know it's a burden, and disturbing the very interesting map discussion, but in response to Jordan's first post...

OPENING TIMES!!!
http://www.altontowers.com/useful-info/ ... erpark-mar

Sorry, let the serious and important discussion about maps continue

Check out times for Sept and Oct All you get is 'open'.

Random opening times though, with some days finishing at 5, whilst some finish at half 5. I wonder if Towers are still trying to work out the best times to close the park. At least they've not gone for 4pm closes unlike last year.

 

[MouseAT]

If your design team can't make it both, then they've failed.

Valid point, but I think in the case of Alton, it's impossible. There's just too much information that needs to be crammed into a small space.

Except that they've managed it before, far more successfully over the past few years. Take a look at the 2008/2009/2010 maps. Towers Times has them archived at http://old.towerstimes.co.uk/history/maps/oldmaps.htm. They're still highly stylized, yet much clearer in terms of where things are in relation to each other, and where the main paths are. The 2005-2007 maps are much simpler and more bland, but are fairly clear. It can be done.

One thing I agree does suck about that map, and I dunno who first mentioned it, is how close Rita & Thirteen are to Air. It does, at a glance, look as though you can just cut across there... Ha, if only.

It also looks like X-Sector is connected to whatever the hell they call the kiddie area behind the towers these days. Seriously, is nobody at Alton checking this stuff?

 

[Mysterious Sue]

I get what you're on about, but I think that 'advert' might be the wrong word.
That sort of implies that it's drawing you into the park, which doesn't make sense as you are already there.

In many, many instances park maps are used as a promotional leaflet that can be picked up outside the park. You have the general information on the outside (directions, prices, opening times etc.), but open it up and you get to see how much the place actually has to offer. When they're used like that (are there many park maps/leaflets that aren't like that these days?), they have to be visually appealing and sell the hell out of their product.

You're much more well-traveled than me obviously, but I've never seen maps available outside a park before.
Yes at the turnstiles, but not like outside, even when it's closed.

Anyway, yes, opening times...does anyone think that the reluctance to set times for later in the year might suggest that they are considering 'late' opening (maybe still in talks with the local powers that be?).

 

[Ben]

^They even do them in the UK, at service stations etc. I know a lot of them are just leaflets but I remember Legoland at least used to have full maps, along with others. Even if they're not the same as the in-park maps, they'll have maps in them.

It defo happens, and is the only time park maps are handed out not for navigation.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

If your design team can't make it both, then they've failed.

Valid point, but I think in the case of Alton, it's impossible. There's just too much information that needs to be crammed into a small space.

Except that they've managed it before, far more successfully over the past few years. Take a look at the 2008/2009/2010 maps. Towers Times has them archived at http://old.towerstimes.co.uk/history/maps/oldmaps.htm. They're still highly stylized, yet much clearer in terms of where things are in relation to each other, and where the main paths are. The 2005-2007 maps are much simpler and more bland, but are fairly clear. It can be done.

See, I don't think those maps are as good as the one now? I think the worse one's were the 2005-2007 ones. They didn't capture the park's mood at all.

One thing I agree does suck about that map, and I dunno who first mentioned it, is how close Rita & Thirteen are to Air. It does, at a glance, look as though you can just cut across there... Ha, if only.

It also looks like X-Sector is connected to whatever the hell they call the kiddie area behind the towers these days. Seriously, is nobody at Alton checking this stuff?

[/quote]
I don't think it looks like that, but you might be right that I only think that because I know? Not sure.


Also, I can vouch for Gavin's point, because most of my maps get picked up at service stations, train stations and the like. There's that entire shop in Leed's train station which is a tourist centre, and they literally have park maps from all over the country. I'm not exaggerating. I've even seen them in Sainsburry.

 

[nadroJ]

So, I just asked some non-goons at Uni if they use maps to navigate their way around parks, and they said no they tend to meander around and just go on what they come across.

I think a massive thing people are missing in this discussion, and it's something that Joey's survey picked up, is the fact that people a lot of the time don't even know/care what rides are in the park, and will happily ride whatever is closest/looks the most fun when they're there. I'm not saying people are entirely oblivious, but most wouldn't care to ride something to the point of making a point of locating it on the park map and making a b-line for it based on the directions provided by the map. In that case you have a goon on your hands, somebody who has more than average knowledge of the park they're at and who therefore can't be classed in the same category as the 'general public' we are discussing in this context.

And in the case of park leaflets at service stations/information centres, more and more I'm finding that a lot of them don't contain maps. They used to. I think they're misleading because a lot of the time they'll look EXACTLY like the maps, but then you open them up and they're full of vouchers, mini advertisements and short articles.