Accident at Alton Towers

[Darren B]

This may sound a little callous, and a little strange, but my immediate sympathies point towards the person responsible for this horrific incident rather than the victims. I appreciate that it may well turn out to be exclusively computer error, but I doubt it. I really believe that someone, somewhere is sat at home knowing that they're responsible for Tuesdays events.

It goes without saying that the victims lives have changed forever. Both physically and mentally. But can you imagine how the person responsible is now set to live out his/her life? Horrible thought. Y'know, if it really does turn out to be human error, theirs is the life that will be the hardest to live after Tuesday.

The most hopeful outcome from Tuedays events are that A) It's computer error B) Nobody has any long term injuries C) Gerstlauer go bankrupt.

 

[gavin]

This may sound a little callous, and a little strange, but my immediate sympathies point towards the person responsible for this horrific incident rather than the victims.

You haven't taken into consideration that since the train didn't complete the circuit, those riders didn't even get the cred.

 

[JJLehto]

Any confirmation, (not sure what sources are legit) that there was indeed a leg amputation? This may not be anything new/substantial.

This is the source http://airgates.co.uk/2015/06/03/smiler-collision-results-in-loss-of-leg/

 

[elephant58]

^There has been no confirmation and the Mail and Telegraph are reporting that a staff member thinks that someone may have, but apart from those rumours, there has not been any confirmation.

I also read on the BBC yesterday, that the 2 women in the middle were the most injured and that the injuries were 'open wounds', indicating open fractures? That would explain why it took so long to evacuate.

 

[cjbrandy]

As for the part about an employee being sent round to test clearances and injuring her hand by hitting a tree at 60mph. Taking it at face value, that can only be referring to Rita, surely?

This person is almost certainly gp rather than enthusiast despite his job and I bet its Nemesis responsible here. If you sit on the right edge, you'd have to be incredibly brave or stupid to stick your right arm out, it gets touchably close to the trees and branches.

 

[nemesis_guy]

Alton Towers Smiler crash: Park 'shut until probe over' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33002283

On this article the Chief Exec says the park can only reopen when the investigation has concluded.

It also has an account from one of the passengers and he confirms they were on the lift for 10-15mins. Also describes some of the injuries/conditions of passengers - not very nice at all.

 

[Gilly]

Well considering it was an 2007/8 worker I hope conditions and practices have changed with the Merlin takeover.

I do hope the injured are on the road to recovery, and perhaps we might find out more about their conditions over the coming days. The description of injuries sounds horrific. Open fractures. Poor kids.

Hopefully the cause is determined soon and Alton can re-open. I personally enjoyed Smiler.... Maybe that was because I hadn't ridden a coaster for 3 years!

 

[ems991]

They keep saying they need to determine whether it is an isolated incident to the Smiler or not, so surely unless they are talking about human error/their own safety procedures etc this can't be an error which would effect the vast majority of the park?

And I gather other parks with Gerstlauer coasters are treating it is an isolated incident to Smiler.


Also I can't help but keep remembering the staff working on it when I went earlier in the season, because the park was so quiet they were all so nice but I would not have placed any of them much older than me and I'm 23.

 

[Gilly]

I was thinking the same Ems.

From the articles I've read and statements from AT, I feel that at this present moment they are leaning towards human error/safety procedures. Perhaps that will change? But reading that the newest infinity coaster hasn't been shut as it has a more up to date programme, does make me twitchy!

I do think Joey has a good theory there. It makes sense.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Someone posted a pic of the CCTV coverage on Smiler:

Photo by jackandylan123 - Dan Cotton

It does cover the Knot (CAM 9) area, but of course whether they had noticed prior to dispatching the loaded train is another matter... Operators do have enough to focus on without keeping an insanely close eye on these screens...

 

[Slayed]

They keep saying they need to determine whether it is an isolated incident to the Smiler or not, so surely unless they are talking about human error/their own safety procedures etc this can't be an error which would effect the vast majority of the park?

I agree, I think that statement from Nick Varney suggests very strongly that it's a procedural/human failure, and probably not a technical failure, hence the continued park closure.

It's actually more likely still to be a multiple human/process failure - not counting the trains back in, not monitoring the CCTV properly, and possibly not checking after error then overriding without full checks.

I agree with Joey that the propensity for the ride to break down has probably led to complacency when it does, and there really is no room for complacency in a theme park. For a park of Alton's size and reputation it's appalling really.

The description in that article of the aftermath is just hideous :-(.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

I think they're just being sensible and going along the route of proving to the public that they've checked the entirity of the park to prove that it is safe...

Give them credit, the way they've dealt with this in the aftermath has been good...

 

[Gilly]

^Definitely!

 

[Slayed]

I think they're just being sensible and going along the route of proving to the public that they've checked the entirety of the park to prove that it is safe.

But as Ben pointed out earlier, it's pretty much unprecedented to close an entire park like this.

I can remember being at Alton in years gone by when the whole of X-Sector happened to be shut. Doesn't stop them opening the park, especially for the likes of CBeebies Land.

They'd open if they could. H&SE must be forcing them closed.

Give them credit, the way they've dealt with this in the aftermath has been good.

Yes, so far they've come across pretty well. I'm impressed with the way they've actively engaged on social media, I wish more organisations would do the same.

 

[mcg0ughchris]

The article says it was travelling at 20mph

For them to be travelling at that speed and the bars on the front of the first carriage to bend back enough to fracture people's legs is pretty worrying. The cars must be cheaply made.

The article is quite horrendous though, especially if the one girl actually bled out to the point of passing out and needing a blood transfusion. Being her boyfriend and sat in restraints next to her would be like mental torture. Horrendous procedures, has to be human error, a series of human errors really. Hopefully the employees reporting of leg loss are just claiming the worst possible scenario after seeing the damage and all 4 of them are alright. Alton Towers should be ashamed, it's safe to say this will never ever happen again though.

I wouldn't like to be in the shoe's of the employee(s) that take the flak for this. You'd be mentally scarred forever if you were deemed to be solely responsible for this. Especially if Alton Towers go down the route of publicity announcing that it was caused completely by human error. I actually think that is more terrifying for the GP than a technical fault

 

[ciallkennett]

Although we are of course focussing on the tragedy itself and the blocking, only Joey has really touched on the issue that worries me about this incident: The Smiler stalled. Again.

Even if this accident did not happen, the fact it would have stalled in the same place once again would have made news on here (and maybe even sensationalist media like Daily Fail/Metro).

We all know how stalling is infequent if unheard of on most coasters (although considerably more likely on empty trains, of course), but that fact that this has happened on more than one occasion is of concern and highlights to me serious problems with the design of the coaster.

Granted, it was a very gusty day in the UK on Tuesday (for anybody outside the US this is an important fact to note as I feel likely to have impacted on the stall considerably) but there are clear failings of the ride regardless of this accident/reasons for the crash.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

I think they're just being sensible and going along the route of proving to the public that they've checked the entirety of the park to prove that it is safe.

But as Ben pointed out earlier, it's pretty much unprecedented to close an entire park like this.

I can remember being at Alton in years gone by when the whole of X-Sector happened to be shut. Doesn't stop them opening the park, especially for the likes of CBeebies Land.

They'd open if they could. H&SE must be forcing them closed.

I believe Varney has motioned towards that they want to check all the coasters to see if it's an issue solely with Smiler or could be potentially repeated on Nemesis/Air/etc... Oblivion is a potential hazard with that brake run as an example...

Bearing in mind some of the recent over-reactions we've seen at Merlin parks (Garden fences everywhere, Chessie removing any piece of theming and areas at height), it's no surprise that they really want to fine comb this...

HSE is probably in the ear as well though... But given that the park would probably get it in the ear that they would be 'disrespectful' if they opened, it's a lose-lose situation...

 

[MouseAT]

The article says it was travelling at 20mph

For them to be travelling at that speed and the bars on the front of the first carriage to bend back enough to fracture people's legs is pretty worrying. The cars must be cheaply made.

Not necessarily. More likely, the trains will be very rigid, without any crumple zones to absorb these sorts of impacts, and no real thought given to how the trains will deform in a collision at speed. The trains aren't designed to take these sorts of impacts because the entire design of the ride is intended to make sure that these sorts of impacts can never occur.

 

[Mysterious Sue]

Given its stalled in that same spot before, there should be CCTV pointed at it that operators can see, tbh. I dunno whether there is or not, but it seems like common sense?

My theory is..... Minor breakdown
, engineers come to reset, send all 4 trains for a test, all seems well but train 4 has stalled due to light weight and wind, they load train 1 unaware and dispatch it, when train 1 hits the lift it shuts down because the block ahead isn't clear (stalled train), engineers are still around and assume the ride is crying wolf again and reset without looking properly. Maybe whatever error that shows up when a block section isn't clear had just occurred, causing the prior breakdown, and it was a freak coincidence that it then actually happened. This is just a wild guess bases on what little knowledge I have.

What this accident shows is that h&s procedures, even if they seem dumb, are important. You can imagine the frustration of dealing with an error keep coming up that is never true and then this one time it is, not paying full attention to it.

When I worked at a park, guests occasionally claim their restraints fail. Of course they're mistaken, all the time, but you take it seriously just on case. Just. In. Case.

I was thinking today - has there ever been an accident of two trains colliding after a stall, ever? And more importantly, at a major park on a modern, major ride? This really is a rare and weird accident.

Reposting because I think this is one of the most sensible reflections so far on what's happened.


Sadly, it is looking more and more like human error (with the park closed for days and other Infinity coasters unaffected). Having said that, I think the UK media is ruthless and unlike any other in the world. So part of the closure might be more 'waiting for it all to blow over' as well as the investigation, councilling staff members etc.

It may seem heartless but keeping a park closed for so long after an accident is I think (and please feel free to correct me) unprecedented. When that kid fell from the ferris wheel, didn't the park just open the next day?

As others have said, I feel really bad for the ride ops who are typically quite young and ultimately just push a few buttons with little actual knowledge of the ride.

Maybe it'll be a good thing in the long run. Encouraging Merlin to pay it's staff better and look after its staff better and encouraging people to stay on for longer than one season to become more experienced? Maybe they'll invest in higher levels of staff training? We all joke about Merlin being a **** company and we experience it as customers. I don't imagine working for them is a joy either. If it is a systematic failure then there might be a big hill to climb before things are OK again.

 

[mcg0ughchris]

The article says it was travelling at 20mph

For them to be travelling at that speed and the bars on the front of the first carriage to bend back enough to fracture people's legs is pretty worrying. The cars must be cheaply made.

Not necessarily. More likely, the trains will be very rigid, without any crumple zones to absorb these sorts of impacts, and no real thought given to how the trains will deform in a collision at speed. The trains aren't designed to take these sorts of impacts because the entire design of the ride is intended to make sure that these sorts of impacts can never occur.

True.

To cause enough velocity to break people's legs though. I'm not sure it was moving as slowly as that