Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

Accident at Alton Towers

Perfect storm at Alton Towers! First a kiddie coaster stops on the lift-hill, a young rider gets worried and it's a major tragedy. Then, someone finds a "large metal clip" under a ride and both Air and Runaway Mine Train are stopped. Erm - why relate the finding of the clip to the closure of both these rides? They are nowhere near each other!
 
Not sure if this has been posted but here's another article...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... re-5864073

The photo from the article makes me upset though, the one near(ish) the bottom. It has the photo of the victims still on the ride, and they have numbered each victim with a photo of them, including the man who looked in especially bad shape. Makes me so angry papers would create diagrams like that.
 
I really don't understand why people who are worried about their safety still ride things. Like, this isn't post Smiler entirely, its always been a thing. I've seen people clamber out of restraints in panic. I've seen people scream on lift hills because their restraint isn't tight enough. I remember once at Kings Dominion, a woman was reassured several times about the distance between the lap bar and her child on the scooby doo coaster, and then she seemed OK, so they dispatch and she FREAKS OUT on the lift and makes them stop the ride. Scarlet told me once about a guest on Slammer who was so horrific to watch panic because they looked like they thought they were going to die - because the shoulder restraint wasn't tight enough for their liking. Like, just... pull it down then?

Watching guests is my favourite hobby, its better than riding coasters.
 
Not to be a bad person, but sometimes when I'm on an older coaster, and if I see a first timer, I like to freak them out by saying things like the ride only had 3 deaths this year.

I'm a terrible person...

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk
 
^Gwazi at BGT and Stampida at Portaventura feel like they're falling to bits when you're going around on them lol.

Smithy did you say they needed to be.airlifted off octonauts? Lol why would you even come to Alton Towers if you were going to act like that?
 
I'm guessing most of you have probably seen this as you've already talked about the shoddy Guardian article. Obviously this isn't much better

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... re-5864073

I'm guessing the technical issues reported are fairly standard and just the media leaping upon anything, but does anybody have any thoughts on that clip? It does seem to be coloured the same as Air?

*Edit* I'm also not sure how I feel about Alton Towers seemingly flat denying everything in this report
 
ems991 said:
I'm guessing most of you have probably seen this as you've already talked about the shoddy Guardian article.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it was already posted here by Ethan :p
Also, I'm new here. Greetings, everyone! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
^ ^ Welcome!

Talking of the Guardian, today I did an interview at AT with The Guardian. It wasn't about the Smiler accident, more of a general "why theme parks are fab" interview. It's in this Saturday's edition. #plug

We were accompanied by a member of the AT press team, so I took the opportunity to ask a few questions re the accident.

Me: When will it open?
AT: We don't know.

Me: Will you re theme it?
AT: We don't know. Probably not.

Me: Do you think the tag line "this coaster will alter your mind and body" is appropriate to be displayed on your Smiler web page?
AT: Does it say that? Hmmm.
(If you check the Smiler page now, you'll see they've removed the text. That's my doing! http://www.altontowers.com/things-to-do ... troduction )

Me: Has the media interest decreased?
AT: Yes.

I have no reason to disbelieve what the PR person was saying. PR will probably be last to know anyway. So the speculation continues.

I never saw Smiler test today. There are small signs around explains why the ride might be testing.

The only two references to The Smiler I saw today were the advertising boarding in the main shop and a logo stencil on the floor of the towers street cable car station. "The big 6 challenge" has disappeared.

I did overhear a few people in the park talk about how awful the accident was but nobody was put off riding. All coasters were running two trains by the end of the day and safety checks were no different.

So there you go, we're none the wiser but I wonder if I planted a seed about the theme... Doubt it.

But yeah, buy the Guardian on Saturday if you want a photo of me to stick on a dartboard or something.
 
Joey said:
I really don't understand why people who are worried about their safety still ride things. Like, this isn't post Smiler entirely, its always been a thing. I've seen people clamber out of restraints in panic. I've seen people scream on lift hills because their restraint isn't tight enough. I remember once at Kings Dominion, a woman was reassured several times about the distance between the lap bar and her child on the scooby doo coaster, and then she seemed OK, so they dispatch and she FREAKS OUT on the lift and makes them stop the ride. Scarlet told me once about a guest on Slammer who was so horrific to watch panic because they looked like they thought they were going to die - because the shoulder restraint wasn't tight enough for their liking. Like, just... pull it down then?

Watching guests is my favourite hobby, its better than riding coasters.
Click to expand...
There is just an inherent distrust of any safety when it comes to "high adrenaline" activities - especially when your life literally relies on the equipment you are using.

Something many may not know about me is that I do have a few years of professional experience as a ropes climbing instructor and director.

Hey look! Some of the ropes courses I managed!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDCbsEUJQkk[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TK-6PdDrIk[/youtube]

[/plug]

Climbers rely on the equipment to provide a safe experience. And while there are inherent redundancies in safety that make it among the safest things you will do in your entire life, there is still that little demon on your shoulder that reminds you the difference between life and death is a few inches of carabiner and rope.

So in the effort to combat this irrational fear of danger, high ropes climbing sessions always start with a rundown of the equipment. The steel wires on which you are climbing/zipping? The exact same cabling they use to catch jets on aircraft carriers (And subsequently launch Intamin Accelerators :p ). The rope on which you are being belayed? It can hold more than 2 and a half elephants-worth of weight. To physically unclip yourself from the line, you would require 3 separate actions of caribiner movement, while simultaneously lifting your entire weight off of the rope. Another element also involved goal setting, and going for climbing challenges that each climber can commit to, emphasizing that while you can come down at any moment, the entire group will support and cheer you on to help you reach your goal.

All in all, this talk takes 1 hour of safety instruction, harnessing, and proper training. Of over 1,000 climbers I have worked with, no one required a "talk down" where the climber freezes mid climb and requires myself to climb up and talk back to the ground.

Of course, all of what I described doesn't exist for roller coasters. These are the safest vehicles on earth, designed to unimaginable safety specifications - but that safety is not immediately apparent to the rider. Without that knowledge, it's easy to instead focus on Final Destination-type fantasies, which can create a negative feedback loop in your head on the inevitable death that awaits you. Just ride Windseeker with someone who screams, "We're all going to die!", and you too can feel the fear of the death that will happen when both bolts holding your gondola come out, and you plummet back to earth still strapped in. ;)
 
Ian said:
^ ^ Welcome!

Talking of the Guardian, today I did an interview at AT with The Guardian. It wasn't about the Smiler accident, more of a general "why theme parks are fab" interview. It's in this Saturday's edition. #plug

We were accompanied by a member of the AT press team, so I took the opportunity to ask a few questions re the accident.

Me: When will it open?
AT: We don't know.

Me: Will you re theme it?
AT: We don't know. Probably not.

Me: Do you think the tag line "this coaster will alter your mind and body" is appropriate to be displayed on your Smiler web page?
AT: Does it say that? Hmmm.
(If you check the Smiler page now, you'll see they've removed the text. That's my doing! http://www.altontowers.com/things-to-do ... troduction )

Me: Has the media interest decreased?
AT: Yes.

I have no reason to disbelieve what the PR person was saying. PR will probably be last to know anyway. So the speculation continues.

I never saw Smiler test today. There are small signs around explains why the ride might be testing.

The only two references to The Smiler I saw today were the advertising boarding in the main shop and a logo stencil on the floor of the towers street cable car station. "The big 6 challenge" has disappeared.

I did overhear a few people in the park talk about how awful the accident was but nobody was put off riding. All coasters were running two trains by the end of the day and safety checks were no different.

So there you go, we're none the wiser but I wonder if I planted a seed about the theme... Doubt it.

But yeah, buy the Guardian on Saturday if you want a photo of me to stick on a dartboard or something.
Click to expand...

Nice post, thanks. Good one with the quote! I would have expected them to have been going through everything with a fine toothed comb but obviously they have a lot to sort out.

I don't really know what to believe re the stories about the clip. Well, we know that the RMT thing was separate and to be honest would they not be more horrified if they had handed in the clip and then the ride wasn't closed to check over? Classic press reaction.

Sounds like he might have been a press guy lurking around (or at least someone who thought it was such a good story to sell that they'd take a photo). I was discussing this with someone and we wondered whether it was part of the lift hill climbing gear but I can't see anything similar in photos of climbs. Doesn't look that important tbh.

The most intriguing thing was about the meal and wine- I assume he was basically trying to say that they bribed him to keep quiet about it (unless it was just a thank you for reporting the clip). Tbh it makes the guy sound more suspect to me. Don't they normally give out free tickets and fast passes for that sort of thing? Their whole response to the issues have been very transparent (including with Ian's questions) so it seems a bit out of character. Also how did they have his mobile number?? I know he was staying at the hotel but would they take contact details for reporting something like that? All seems weird.
 
If I was Alton Towers though I would try my best not to let some idiot tell a story to the press!
 
SilverArrow said:
Ian said:
I don't really know what to believe re the stories about the clip. Well, we know that the RMT thing was separate and to be honest would they not be more horrified if they had handed in the clip and then the ride wasn't closed to check over? Classic press reaction.

Sounds like he might have been a press guy lurking around (or at least someone who thought it was such a good story to sell that they'd take a photo). I was discussing this with someone and we wondered whether it was part of the lift hill climbing gear but I can't see anything similar in photos of climbs. Doesn't look that important tbh.

The most intriguing thing was about the meal and wine- I assume he was basically trying to say that they bribed him to keep quiet about it (unless it was just a thank you for reporting the clip). Tbh it makes the guy sound more suspect to me. Don't they normally give out free tickets and fast passes for that sort of thing? Their whole response to the issues have been very transparent (including with Ian's questions) so it seems a bit out of character. Also how did they have his mobile number?? I know he was staying at the hotel but would they take contact details for reporting something like that? All seems weird.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It sounds very much like a press trick - see if the response is "mind your own business" (as one guest was apparently told to do by an employee when telling them about the stalled train) so they could report "NOTHING HAS CHANGED!! WOE!!" The reports that were published about the incident made it sound as dreadful as possible and, even now, with the "retractions" in place, they manage to make it sound just as bad, with "These rides will be re-opening as normal tomorrow" when they were, in fact, running normally most of today. I've been on Twitter again this evening trying to stem the flow of crap, but it's a losing battle - once the stories are out there, true or otherwise, that's it, really!

As for the clip - it looks like one of those buckles that is used to tighten the straps used on lorries/trucks. Wonder if that was planted too...

EDIT: Sorry folks - looks like I messed up the quote!
 
Ethan said:
If I was Alton Towers though I would try my best not to let some idiot tell a story to the press!
Click to expand...

Well yeah, but if it gets out that you're supposedly bribing people it can look worse. As I said, it sounds like a weird gift to give but I suppose he is staying at the hotel. Could be legit but the article seems a bit weird. Bearing in mind the guy who they gave it to probably isn't a ride engineer (so wouldn't know if it was a problem or not) of course he is going to go pale if you present a suspected fallen ride part to him at this point in time.

CoastinBear said:
SilverArrow said:
Ian said:
I don't really know what to believe re the stories about the clip. Well, we know that the RMT thing was separate and to be honest would they not be more horrified if they had handed in the clip and then the ride wasn't closed to check over? Classic press reaction.

Sounds like he might have been a press guy lurking around (or at least someone who thought it was such a good story to sell that they'd take a photo). I was discussing this with someone and we wondered whether it was part of the lift hill climbing gear but I can't see anything similar in photos of climbs. Doesn't look that important tbh.

The most intriguing thing was about the meal and wine- I assume he was basically trying to say that they bribed him to keep quiet about it (unless it was just a thank you for reporting the clip). Tbh it makes the guy sound more suspect to me. Don't they normally give out free tickets and fast passes for that sort of thing? Their whole response to the issues have been very transparent (including with Ian's questions) so it seems a bit out of character. Also how did they have his mobile number?? I know he was staying at the hotel but would they take contact details for reporting something like that? All seems weird.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It sounds very much like a press trick - see if the response is "mind your own business" (as one guest was apparently told to do by an employee when telling them about the stalled train) so they could report "NOTHING HAS CHANGED!! WOE!!" The reports that were published about the incident made it sound as dreadful as possible and, even now, with the "retractions" in place, they manage to make it sound just as bad, with "These rides will be re-opening as normal tomorrow" when they were, in fact, running normally most of today. I've been on Twitter again this evening trying to stem the flow of crap, but it's a losing battle - once the stories are out there, true or otherwise, that's it, really!

As for the clip - it looks like one of those buckles that is used to tighten the straps used on lorries/trucks. Wonder if that was planted too...

EDIT: Sorry folks - looks like I messed up the quote!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I did think Ian had some pretty similar thoughts to me haha. I would NOT be surprised at all if it was planted. Seems too perfectly timed and placed as it's a queue that goes under the ride etc.
 
Ethan said:
If I was Alton Towers though I would try my best not to let some idiot tell a story to the press!
Click to expand...
Hey, I'm sure Ian's interview with the Guardian is all sooper-dooper.

;-)
 
One thing I did notice today was a lack of information to reassure guests.

At the start of the day Nemesis was running one train. Fine. It's off-peak, they probably were not expecting loads of people so it made sense.

Shortly after midday they added a second train because the queue was in the upper section of the queue line. Ie: long.

A pre-recorded announcement said the ride had temporarily stopped and it could be a while until it's running again.

I saw the engineer head to the stored train and activate the transfer track. I knew instantly that they were adding the second train.

People started to question what was wrong and a few left the queue.

I spoke to the journalist in a loud voice, so I could be overheard, that this was normal and would ultimately reduce the wait time.

The ride op should have used his mic and informed the queue what they were doing. It's common sense. If the waiting riders knew it was routine and it would reduce their wait time, people wouldn't have looked so concerned.

Any delay or empty trains doing routine test runs will not ease waiting riders who are unaware of coaster operations. I think it's time for Merlin to inform riders exactly why they are seeing empty trains and are being delayed. 99.99999% of the time it will be routine things like adding an extra train, somebody being sick, fat person trying to be pinned in row 5 and so on.
 
Its stupid not to inform guests if its adding another train, don't see why they cant just say.

Also why can't they just run two trains by default, one train operation is lazy, inefficent and annoying. I often hear Six Flags can be culprits for bad operations and Ive heard that Flamingoland doesnt have the best either.
 
^ Think of it as supply and demand - the trains are the supply of demand for riding from guests. In this market, efficiency would be the measure of how little supply is needed to fulfill the demand of guests.

The purpose of one train operation is that either:

A. It is anticipated that there will not be a long enough line to fully utilize the presence of more than one train. E.g. empty seats due to insufficient amount of guests.

B. Insufficient ride staff to operate more than one train. (Not always the case, but can be a factor at times)

There is also a consideration of stacking and minimizing wear on trains. These do ultimately translate to opportunity and monetary costs that can make the entire ride operation less efficient.

Yes, naturally it would be fantastic for every ride to run all of their trains all the time - but these are the real factors at play when fewer trains are running.

And FWIW, Cedar Fair does not announce when they are adding a train. Trains are emptied and cycled as needed to make room for the new train, and normal operation resumes.
 
^^It really depends on which Six Flags park. Parks like St. Louis and Great America usually run 2+ trains on their rides. But parks like Six Flags America and Magic Mountain are usually all 1-train operations. So in a way, the better the park, the better the operations...?
 
Operators should do announcements, but there's a 100 reasons why they don't. Some don't care. Some don't think. Some just hate using the mic. But in other cases, the operator might be distracted by having to inform relevant people by phone of what is going on. Or by their attendants who lack the common sense to figure themselves out and go to the operator every 5 minutes. Breakdowns and other operational issues can be stressful and it's easy to forget the "non-essential" stuff over all the trained procedures you have to follow.

1 train operation when it's quiet is often to reduce the time guests are left stranded on block breaks waiting for the train ahead to finish loading a trickle of guests. On some coasters, they have minimum weight requirements and require a certain number of guests to be on board. That could mean train 2 is waiting for a very long time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top