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2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's)

Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

^ There is that certain part of me that hopes with a larger ridership of Outlaw Run next year, it can come out on top.

Of course I guess I wasn't doing it much favor by placing it second to Ravine Flyer II and my favorite steel coaster.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

Some people are calling party foul on Voyage's ranking. There are ballots with it ranked tied with kiddy woodies.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

Glad to se Balder still up there! Interesting that Voyage is so high up, after what I read about it. Some people seems to love it, while others hate it with a passion.

Hyde244 said:
I was most surprised by GoldStriker at 13th place - it was a roller coaster tampered by controversy with park neighbors (not to mention years and years of permitting issues), but has been a well received roller coaster with kick.

All GCI rides usually debuts pretty high up in the poll, and then fall down.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

rollermonkey said:
Some people are calling party foul on Voyage's ranking. There are ballots with it ranked tied with kiddy woodies.
^ on RRC? :eek:

Yeah its a shame when people don't "play fair" but hopefully the volume of people voting doesn't mean that this makes a great difference. Problem with the Voyage is high expectation and high votes when it was new - I only rode it in season #3 and base my vote on that but I can totally understand people down-voting it in later years (but not being silly about it and ranking it in a juvenile way).

However its still ended up #7, and you could not really argue with anyone who said they preferred any of the ones above it (apart from Phoenix, which I have just never understood the geeky-love for, but thats just me!)
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

Happened a few years back in the steel poll with people voting Superman: ROS top and EGF bottom just to make sure EGF didn't finish above. I seem to remember Mitch just null and voided the votes on those ballots.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

Yeah.... but that was also like.. People were entering ballots that only had New England's Superman, Ge Force, and like 2 other random coasters, those ballots that were obviously faked to bomb out GeForce.... Where as the ones in question now are just putting kiddie PTC woodies on par with Voyage but at least are full ballots and not just 4 random coasters.

And if anyone wants to waste some time with a lovely read, you can check it out here - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... Q41KSxc5tw (PG-13?)
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

Great blog write-up David. Skewness from outliers is a threat to any poll or study, and I am grateful that Hawker has been able to compensate throughout the years.

Yet even with the threat of skewed ballots, the Hawker polls are still far better than corporate-sponsorship awards, such as the Golden Ticket Awards. As a roller coaster community, it is good for us to continue vigilance of biased ballots, and emphasize the importance of the Mitch Hawker polls in providing an objective analysis of the best roller coasters in the world.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

Okay with the result's, Gold striker is pretty high hopefully I will get to ride it next year, and where is Apocalypse, it is better than Tremors but Tremors is still pretty good.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

With so little separating the top tier coasters, a couple votes could have been the difference between the #1 and #3 coasters, or 7th and a higher position.

...and if the ballots in question have a lot of coasters, then the coaster in question loses even more mutual pairings, pulling it down further. I'd love to see the results if the ballots in question were removed.

...and don't forget that three votes brought a coasters lol the way from complete obscurity to #2, so we already know it's easy for a small number of people to drastically change a coaster's position in this system.

Voyage lost exactly two mutual rider comparisons against the top three coasters, and those two ballots were from people with the same last name who both put it in the 40's.

So, yeah. Mitch's Poll, once the most reliable poll in the hobby has become as big a farce as the. Golden Tickets.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

As much as I dislike the people in question, I'm glad Voyage didn't make it higher in the list.

When I rode it in 2010, it had one original train and one of Raven's trains on it. If it wasn't for Raven's train, the thing would probably be in the bottom half of my list. Instead, it comes in at number 9, beating El Toro by 2 places. One train over the other really did make that much of a difference in ride quality.

I know a hell of a lot of people who massively rate El Toro though, and there is no justifiable reason that I can think of on why Voyage should be placed above any of the coasters above it. If it did rank higher, I'd probably post that I think it's too high in the rankings.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

I haven't ridden Voyage since early in the second season, but those who've ridden recently say that it's better than it has ever been.

Voting it as no better or worse than the Scooby Doo Ghoster Coasters is pretty obviously biased by something other than the ride itself.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

From Mitch's own writeup, it sounded like Outlaw Run really, really should have been #1.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

The thing is a lot of people who cried foul on those votes didn't vote themselves.

Despite what Richard Bannister says in the thread I've always been of the opinion that if you don't vote you cannot complain. I feel the same way in any election/vote.

And in this case the more votes there are the less any given biased or rigged vote counts.

Anyone who says "the polls biased I'm not voting" is actually part of the problem and should realise such and fill in there damn ballot before they moan about it.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

^ Bingo. The larger a poll sampling, the less effect outliers will have on the final results.

If you are not happy with apart bias in the poll, the best thing you can do is participate. Not participating means a smaller sample size, allowing each ballot to carry more weight.

To this tune, we will be promoting the steel coaster poll when it comes out, and hope that all of the CF community can participate.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

Despite Outlaw run being third, RMC seem to be the true winners behind this:

Rocky Mountain's Facebook Page said:
Outlaw Run #3 in the polls! Interestingly, RMC worked on both El Toro and T Express as well!

Which, frankly doesn't astound me to be honest. What's also intriguing is that Silverwood's Tremors, which received extensive retracking by RMC finsihed a solid 20th, in spite of its age. Perhaps one of the perks of this information is not only that many Parks have established good working relationships with RMC (leading to possible future developments), but furthermore, if RMC are able to maintain rides to top-caliber, their own wonderful creations should give long-lived incredible rides (especially I-Box).

Anyway, as for the skewing of the poll? As a coaster enthusiast, we will have all undoubtedly experienced what I like to call 'natural variability', which is more so the case with woodies. Just like Voyage running one of Raven's trains, I've ridden a glass smooth Rita one day and an utterly soulless headbanger the next visit. With weather conditions, maintenance periods and even trains, coaster rides will rarely be the same. That's why my decisions are never based on a single ride experience.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

^ If I recall correctly all they did was put it together. It was designed by Intamin. That's akin to the guy who welded the beams on the Empire State Building taking credit for the building being an icon, IMO.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

roomraider said:
Anyone who says "the polls biased I'm not voting" is actually part of the problem and should realise such and fill in there damn ballot before they moan about it.

I beg to differ.

I'm complaining that people are trying to skew the results intentionally and thus not voting.

For three consecutive years, I helped write the ballots, incorporating the necessary additions and deletions, and reviewed every single ballot submitted, because I was asked, and Mitch needed help (notice the poll is starting and ending later every year?) because it is a lot of work running that poll. The first year, if I found a ballot with format issues, or some kind of possible disparity, I'd let Mitch know, and if he agreed, he'd contact the individual and ask for clarification. The next two years, I did the asking. For a while, and as many times he complained about how he didn't have time to do it any more, I was starting to wonder if he was going to just give up and give the whole damn thing to me.

I stopped voting because despite blatant evidence that his polling system can be manipulated by a small number of well-travelled enthusiasts, he refused to accept that as a possibility. The closest I could get was getting him to put an asterix (*) next to coasters that appeared on less than 1% of respondents ballots, and the next year, he pushed it up to 3%.

The poll is absolutely fantastic, and provides an excellent measure of a coaster's performance and popularity, without being a pure popularity contest.

As long as all the ballots are filled honestly.

Those two have, IMO, tilted their ballots to "punish" parks they feel haven't treated them as well as they feel they deserve, and to boost the parks that are on the trips planned for the next year. Comparing their ballots from one year to the next, and to an extent, to the 'rider sensations', these patterns become evident.

The poll can be swayed by small numbers of voters, precisely because it is designed so that it doesn't punish rides for being poorly attended. That algorithm provides additional weight to ballots with more coasters on them. A coaster voted down on a big ballot picks up mutual losses. A coaster voted up picks up more mutual wins. Heck, even the use of voting by grouping makes it that much easier to rack up more wins or losses.

It sucks, but it's true, and thus it can be manipulated to an unfortunate degree. The razor thin margins between adjacent rankings clearly show that it doesn't take a lot to move a coaster up or down at least a few places.

Because the system has been shown to have a pretty major flaw, which is being taken advantage of by people for purely selfish reasons, and the unwillingness of the pollster to adjust the method or compensate for that flaw, my participation or lack thereof is irrelevant.

And the results are tainted, which is a terrible shame. The only good thing is that it only really affects enthusiasts, and not the GP.

So, yeah. Watch for coasters at 6FoT to get torpedoed if/when the steel poll comes out.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

^ Which two ballots? I'm interested, but not enough to trawl through and find them if someone's done the work already.

Copy and paste/name and shame please.
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

They both have the surname Alvey - if that helps?
 
Re: 2013 Internet Wooden Roller Coaster Poll (Mitch Hawker's

^ That's ok then. For a second there I thought it could have been insignificant people. Nothing to see here, move along, please.

Mitch Hawker's poll remains the most reliable coaster poll out there imo...even though I've never submitted a ballot...and like results from any poll, you can interpret the results how you want.
 
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