Wiegand Summer Toboggan. Cred or no Cred?

[VonRolland]

I've tried finding if this topic was discussed prior & nothing really fitted it completely so here we go

Wiegand Summer Toboggan runs do you consider this a cred or not & why? Certainly interested to hear people's thoughts below especially @nadroJ

Well personally I do, Why?
Well to start it's very similar to the mountain coaster model with the only difference being that you aren't fixed to a track when you leave the lift, it coasts ofc & it's very much similar to bobsleds made by Mack/Intamin just with single 'trains' with the ability to control you're speed.
At the end of they day it's all personal to each person but interested to see how it swing's
Thoughts, feeling's, comments below

POV incase you aren't familiar with the model

 

[CanobieFan]

Alpine Slide = not a credit.

It might be coaster adjacent but I don't count them as credit (but I also don't count alpine coaster/mountain coasters) self controlled speed and lack of uphill motion disqualifies it for me.

 

[ECG]

... Well personally I do, ...

Every time I think I've seen it all on these forums.

 

[Hixee]

Also a no from me, but slightly less tangible reasoning. @Ben and I were discussing this recently (on the subject of the powered slides like Maximus' Blitz Bahn), and there's something about it being slightly too many steps removed.

Normal Coaster - rails, no speed control, uphill coasting = coaster
Powered Coaster - rails, no speed control, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = coaster
Mack Bobsled - no rails, no speed control, uphill coasting = coaster
Alpine Coaster - rails, speed control, no uphill coasting = not a coaster*
Powered Slide - no rails, speed control, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = not a coaster
Alpine Slide - no rails, speed control, no uphill coasting = not a coaster

*Although I will admit I'm still a little undecided on these. I'm yet to actually ride one (lol), so I'm holding judgement until I've experienced one. Does it feel like a coaster?

 

[HeartlineCoaster]

I've never understood the argument of speed control. If you were fortunate enough to be the brakeman on your inaugural lap of Rutschebanen, would you not get the cred?
I like Hixee's explanation so I'll steal it and remove that:

Normal Coaster - rails, uphill coasting = coaster
Powered Coaster - rails, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = coaster
Mack Bobsled - no rails, uphill coasting = coaster
Alpine Coaster - rails, no uphill coasting = coaster
Powered Slide - no rails, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = not a coaster
Alpine Slide - no rails, no uphill coasting = not a coaster

 

[Hixee]

I've never understood the argument of speed control. If you were fortunate enough to be the brakeman on your inaugural lap of Rutschebanen, would you not get the cred?
I like Hixee's explanation so I'll steal it and remove that:

Normal Coaster - rails, uphill coasting = coaster
Powered Coaster - rails, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = coaster
Mack Bobsled - no rails, uphill coasting = coaster
Alpine Coaster - rails, no uphill coasting = coaster
Powered Slide - no rails, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = not a coaster
Alpine Slide - no rails, no uphill coasting = not a coaster

You will always (ALWAYS) be able to find exceptions, but including the speed control aspect lets you also count out stuff like those alpine carts of whatever they're called. Otherwise that's basically the same as powered coaster, which (lol) it's clearly not.

So the brakeman argument a bit flimsy to me - I work on the logic of how the ride is meant to be experienced by the normal punter. It's a bit like saying "what if you one day had to drive a bus 'cos the driver collapsed, does that make you a bus driver not a passenger anymore?" Well yes... but that's just silly.

 

[VonRolland]

Alpine Slide = not a credit.

It might be coaster adjacent but I don't count them as credit (but I also don't count alpine coaster/mountain coasters) self controlled speed and lack of uphill motion disqualifies it for me.

Interesting take, do Scenic Railways then count by that reasoning?

Also a no from me, but slightly less tangible reasoning. @Ben and I were discussing this recently (on the subject of the powered slides like Maximus' Blitz Bahn), and there's something about it being slightly too many steps removed.

Normal Coaster - rails, no speed control, uphill coasting = coaster
Powered Coaster - rails, no speed control, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = coaster
Mack Bobsled - no rails, no speed control, uphill coasting = coaster
Alpine Coaster - rails, speed control, no uphill coasting = not a coaster*
Powered Slide - no rails, speed control, requires to be fully powered round the whole circuit = not a coaster
Alpine Slide - no rails, speed control, no uphill coasting = not a coaster

*Although I will admit I'm still a little undecided on these. I'm yet to actually ride one (lol), so I'm holding judgement until I've experienced one. Does it feel like a coaster?

Maximus is a fantastic ride & of course i do count that also.
I can't see why an Alpine Coaster (let alone toboggan run) wouldn't be, as they do feel coastery if that's a word, but like I say all different take's on the 'rules' of a cred and such.
@Hixee if you can try the Fforrest Coaster at Zipworld, its a decent length, quick and actually quite fun. Think you get 3 runs from what i remember

 

[Eyebrows]

Personally, I don’t, and I don’t count alpine coasters either, like many people on the forum. My rule for counting coasters is that RCDB classifies it as a “roller coaster”, except for Sunkid Butterflies, so I don’t count powered coasters either. A powered coaster is too hard to define for me, and doesn’t provide that similar of an experience to a regular coaster. That doesn’t mean that I don’t ride them or enjoy them, I just don’t think they should be counted as creds.

 

[nadroJ]

That's a no from me my dude ?

 

[HeartlineCoaster]

You will always (ALWAYS) be able to find exceptions, but including the speed control aspect lets you also count out stuff like those alpine carts of whatever they're called. Otherwise that's basically the same as powered coaster, which (lol) it's clearly not.

Do you mean Bobkarts? If so, then they're already counted out by the lack of rails and the power, you don't even need to consider the speed control aspect in order to discount them.
Which leads me to ask what's the point of including the speed control aspect? Why is the ability to apply braking seen as a removal of the 'coasting' factor?

 

[Hixee]

Do you mean Bobkarts? If so, then they're already counted out by the lack of rails and the power, you don't even need to consider the speed control aspect in order to discount them.
Which leads me to ask what's the point of including the speed control aspect? Why is the ability to apply braking seen as a removal of the 'coasting' factor?

No, I mean these things - "CoasterKarts":

CoasterKart Circuits

Wiegand - manufacturer of Summer Toboggan Runs, Uplift Systems, Alpine Coaster, Waterslides, Childrens Venture Slides ... - made of stainless steel.

www.wiegandslide.com

 

[HeartlineCoaster]

No, I mean these things - "CoasterKarts":

Oh no, they really have thrown a spanner in the works haven't they!

I think my personal (biased) solution to this would be to separate 'just braking' and 'full speed control', allowing Alpine Coasters to live on and keeping Bobkarts and CoasterKarts out of the picture.

 

[Hixee]

I think my personal (biased) solution to this would be to separate 'just braking' and 'full speed control', allowing Alpine Coasters to live on and keeping Bobkarts and CoasterKarts out of the picture.

Just one post earlier there's no need for including speed control, and now you're sub-dividing it.

You'd give Boris a run for his money with that U-turn.

 

[HeartlineCoaster]

Just one post earlier there's no need for including speed control, and now you're sub-dividing it.

You'd give Boris a run for his money with that U-turn.

"New scientific evidence has come to light with your Wiegand link"

 

[Hyde]

Beyond the letter of the law that’s been pretty well laid out, it’s easy to ID the spirit of the Summer Toboggans is... not a roller coaster. They’re fun and thrilling, and do feel wholly apart from what we would define as a roller coaster.