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B&M + Disney

So I've been thinking about this for a while now and have seen various forum topics relating to the fact that B&M haven't worked together (Although I could be wrong)

Given the fact that B&M are capacity machines, wouldn't this be great for their parks.

Or is it the fact that the coasters they create are purely thrill rides and that doesn't fit the Disney demographic?

What do you guys think?
 

Niles

Member
Or is it the fact that the coasters they create are purely thrill rides and that doesn't fit the Disney demographic?

This is one reason, B&M are great at what they do but they do not fit the Disney demographic as a lot of the kids are not tall enough to go on them?

I think Disney want to focus on more story driven unique attractions which all of the family can ride, Disney could ask B&M to do this but why would they when they have Vekoma who will innovate and do want ever Disney wants. They are very flexible, while I don’t think B&M are as much. Also B&Ms take on a family coaster was pretty megh.

Disney also work with Intamin and Mack who are two other great flexible company’s with lots of experience so they don’t really need to work with anyone new.

While it would be nice to have the capacity of a B&M, duel loading stations, block sections and well trained staff do a great job at getting people through.
 

Pokemaniac

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I think B&M are a little too thrill-focused and a little too conservative in their designs to deliver what Disney wants for its demographic.

Plus, other manufacturers have proven that they are flexible and versatile enough to do so, so it would be an uphill battle even if B&M were to try their hand at that market.
 

Gazza

Active Member
Given the fact that B&M are capacity machines, wouldn't this be great for their parks.

-Any coaster can be a capacity machine, it's not just B&M that can do it.

-It's probably more that most B&M buyers are large parks so it's rare you'd see a low capacity B&M exist, whilst Intamin/Mack/Vekoma sell from a gamut of small to large parks, so you'll see low capacity Intamins like Jet Rescue to high capacity Intamins like Incredicoaster.

You can have 34 people on an expedition Everest train or 32/36 on a full sized B&M looper/hyper train.

But in any case, it's not really the size of the train that counts anyway, it's dispatch interval.

Disney are usually pretty clear up front about what capacity they need to achieve, and design a ride with enough trains and blocks and "scenes" of appropriate length to achieve this.

B&M don't really offer anything capacity wise that other manufacturers cannot achieve.
 

holtjammy16

New Member
i'd almost think B&M's are too drawn out with too boxy a track size to compete with what intamin and vekoma can do for rides as heavily themed as disney
 

Hixee

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I think also, B&M (as a company) are too boring.

I don't mean that their rides are bad, I love B&Ms, and they make very exciting rides, but they're extremely focused on reliability. My guess is that when Disney say "we want six trains, two launches, a switch track and completely custom trains", B&M shy away from it because they don't work with coasters like that. They wouldn't put the launch on Hulk, and it took them until 2015 to build a launch coaster at all. They've only ever made nine different models of coaster, two of those are discontinued (sit down and stand up), one will never be made again (family inverted) and the future doesn't look bright for the floorless model either. Compare that to the dozens of ride styles Vekoma and Intamin make...

They make exceptional coasters, but they're exceptional because they're refined and proven.

Intamin and Vekoma are a bit more willing to explore ideas 'outside the catalogue', which is what Disney (and Universal) are looking for.
 

Gazza

Active Member
Side note, why wont the family inverted be made again?
It's still listed on their website.
 

UP87

Member
I feel like in the last decade more intense thrill coasters are becoming more and more of a family activity and less of a thrill seeker thing. Looking at some beautifully themed B&M inverts like Nemesis or Black Mamba I think a coaster like this could fit in a Disney park. Especially Black Mamba could fit nicely into Animal Kingdom or Epcot. But B&M inverts just feel different compared to Vekomas STC (Hals über Kopf). With their other coaster types I think they don't really fit into Disney's idea of theming a coaster. Given the current projects for Disney parks we won't see anything like that in the near future though.
 

Matt N

Well-Known Member
I think also, B&M (as a company) are too boring.

I don't mean that their rides are bad, I love B&Ms, and they make very exciting rides, but they're extremely focused on reliability. My guess is that when Disney say "we want six trains, two launches, a switch track and completely custom trains", B&M shy away from it because they don't work with coasters like that. They wouldn't put the launch on Hulk, and it took them until 2015 to build a launch coaster at all. They've only ever made nine different models of coaster, two of those are discontinued (sit down and stand up), one will never be made again (family inverted) and the future doesn't look bright for the floorless model either. Compare that to the dozens of ride styles Vekoma and Intamin make...

They make exceptional coasters, but they're exceptional because they're refined and proven.

Intamin and Vekoma are a bit more willing to explore ideas 'outside the catalogue', which is what Disney (and Universal) are looking for.
Have the sit down and stand up been discontinued? I thought that the new ride going to Universal Studios Beijing was due to be a sit down?

In terms of why Disney have never gone for B&Ms, I think it’s because they generally target families. I don’t think it’s necessarily due to uniqueness; Universal still quite actively works with B&M (Decepticoaster is opening this year in Beijing, and Flying Dinosaur was only installed in USJ in 2016), and they often try to build similarly technologically advanced attractions as Disney. And it’s not like Disney haven’t ever built some more off-the-shelf rides (things like Rock’n’Rollercoaster and California Screamin’ aren’t that technologically advanced, for example). Although I do agree with your general point that B&M probably wouldn’t provide anything really, really bespoke with loads of bells and whistles.
 

Hixee

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Have the sit down and stand up been discontinued? I thought that the new ride going to Universal Studios Beijing was due to be a sit down?
You're right, I suppose one installation in 13 years still counts... even if it's just a re-profiled clone...

On the other hand, they haven't built a new stand-up since 1999. Yeah, that model line is discontinued. ;)
 

Pokemaniac

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Have the sit down and stand up been discontinued? I thought that the new ride going to Universal Studios Beijing was due to be a sit down?
The sit down is not discontinued, but I'd argue most potential customers of one would go to other manufacturers if what they want is a plain sit-down coaster. Not sure if B&M can compete in terms of costs or site flexibility. Likewise, if they were to go to B&M for their next coaster, why would they go for the regular, boring sit-down when they could have a floorless, or even something even more spectacular like a Wing or Flyer? It's like going to the Ice Cream Parlor of Ten Thousand Flavours only to buy two scoops of plain vanilla.
 

Hyde

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It really begs a good design question, what type of roller coaster does Disney want to build?

As @Hixee pointed out, Disney puts great emphasis on customization and ability to tweak every aspect of the coaster design. In many ways, the coaster is the least important thing, as Disney is focused on the story-telling, theming; literally needing the roller coaster to melt away at points. One of the most "roller coaster" roller coaster Disney has ever built is Incredicoaster... which is also considered one of it's least popular among enthusiasts, versus other adult coaster attractions like Rock n Roller Coaster, Space Mountain, Expedition Everest, BTMR, Tron, etc. Even Slinky Dog Dash has a massive element of customized train design.

Objectively, many of Disney's coasters would be horrible roller coasters without theming - it's the theming that bring the x factor. B&M is far more suited to offering stunning roller coasters that stand without a lick of storytelling/theming. Nowhere is this better illustrated than the transition from Dragon Challenge to Hagrid's Motorbike - one (B&M) coaster a massive thrills, no frills affair; the other (Intamin) an immersive multi-sensory storytelling - that also has coaster bits. :p
 

Gazza

Active Member
You're right, I suppose one installation in 13 years still counts... even if it's just a re-profiled clone...

On the other hand, they haven't built a new stand-up since 1999. Yeah, that model line is discontinued. ;)
Didn't they lodge a patent for a better version:



 

emoo

Member
Discontinued is a funny word. Im sure if B&M were asked they would build anything from their past catalogue (perhaps after a quick sales pitch for a winged coaster). However unless a park wanted to be ultra wacky and build a stand up, or extra boring and build a sit down - either for twice the price, they would.

We got the family B&M inverts due to circumstances and isn't the layout from the other manufacturer they would likely otherwise have gone with?

The above patient has raised questions and interest but we haven't been told directly how they plan to use it, only our analysis and predictions at the moment.

As for Disney working with Vekoma there is a lot to be said for a strong working relationship as you can get the most out both sides. You can directly improve on past designs, the communications will be above starting with anyone new and you already know each other's favourite restaurants & quirks. Vekomas flexibility and product diversity will make ongoing conversations worth having for Disney who want the final say to build the latest attraction.
 

CoasterMOG

New Member
I can see how B&M wouldn’t be a good fit for Disney especially if having to cater to small riders I.e. children. But ask yourself, what if Disney did work with the current best that B&M has to offer, which arguably is the hyper. 9 row clamshell trains in either a dual loading and/or moving loading station would make for a true capacity monster. Frankly, the biggest PIA about Disney is capacity and what can be stupid wait times for rides. Address that for a change. Sure, big ole camelbacks in their skyline isn’t Disney’s thing, and concealing a traditional hyper within enough structure like a tron or guardians would be stupid expensive (but Disney does have the money). So don’t do a traditional hyper.
Disney likes their stuff unique and catered to them. If I were B&M, I’d cater a hyper to them. What would a catered hyper look like? For one, make it a launched hyper and do something with all that real estate on the hyper trains to better theme them. Need to slow the train down for some story elements/interaction, do so with high up elevated brake runs that can quickly bleed off all that energy. As for a possible layout, make it more of a twister like raging bull with some Orion like speed hills and throw in a couple small to medium sized cammelbacks to still experience that great B&M floater.
With the 100’s of millions that Disney is now throwing at some of its rides, you can’t tell me that B&M couldn’t come up with something absolutely incredible and unique to Disney
 
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