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Average Line/Queue Times Per Park and Per Ride

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
Waiting in lines is a huge part of any coaster enthusiast's experience, and learning to manage (or at least second-guess) the patterns of queues is an absolute must. We study the calendar well in picking a day we think will limit the crowds, and some of you use apps for certain parks to alert you to current wait times. And of course there are those evil fastpasses ...

However, in general I find there is a strange dearth of fixed information about queue times, and I've even found that some enthusiasts don't want to talk about it for some strange reason.

So what's my question? Does there exist a database out there that records the average wait times per park and/or per ride? I have not been able to find it, and I think that parks suppress this information (I'm not getting conspiratorial; I just think it's something they don't like to advertise). But even if the parks don't do it, what is to stop enthusiasts from building a database, with people logging their wait times in order to get at averages?

I think it would be interesting in general to know, for example, which park or ride is the king of the wait. But I also think it would be very useful for people to know before first-time visits. It would quickly tell people in advance how to manage their time, and, most crucially, how many hours or DAYS they will need to reasonably cover everything at a park.

(Forum newbie disclaimer: I'm sure lines have been discussed here before in some way; please excuse me if my question is re-inventing the wheel.)
 

Hixee

Flojector
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However, in general I find there is a strange dearth of fixed information about queue times, and I've even found that some enthusiasts don't want to talk about it for some strange reason.
I suspect it's just not a very exciting topic to talk about?

"Was the coaster good?"
"The queue was really long."
"But how were the forces?"
"It must have been over an hour."
"What's the [insert element name here] like?"
"And one train operations, even with a queue like that!"

It's boring and (for the most part) not the real experience. The only real exception being the heavily themed, story telling queues, which people do talk about, but they're relatively few and far between.

Does there exist a database out there that records the average wait times per park and/or per ride? I have not been able to find it, and I think that parks suppress this information (I'm not getting conspiratorial; I just think it's something they don't like to advertise). But even if the parks don't do it, what is to stop enthusiasts from building a database, with people logging their wait times in order to get at averages?

I think it would be interesting in general to know, for example, which park or ride is the king of the wait. But I also think it would be very useful for people to know before first-time visits. It would quickly tell people in advance how to manage their time, and, most crucially, how many hours or DAYS they will need to reasonably cover everything at a park.

(Forum newbie disclaimer: I'm sure lines have been discussed here before in some way; please excuse me if my question is re-inventing the wheel.)
I've never come across anything like this. I think it sounds simple enough on the face of it, but I suspect the mechanics of it would be really quite hard to pull off. Queue times are probably stored by the park (I'd be shocked if not, as it must help them with crowd planning), but I doubt they share it publicly simply because I doubt enough external people care. Plus, yes, I suppose it would highlight crap operations, although that's likely not the issue!
 

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
Thanks, Hixee, for the response. Boring topic or not, every enthusiast wants to maximize his or her coaster-riding experience, and knowing line patterns well allows for that. I love amusement parks, obviously, but there have been a number of occasions when I thought the lines were so bad that I had to admit that coming to the park that day was a mistake -- more hassle than pleasure.
 

Hixee

Flojector
Staff member
Administrator
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Boring topic or not, every enthusiast wants to maximize his or her coaster-riding experience, and knowing line patterns well allows for that. I love amusement parks, obviously, but there have been a number of occasions when I thought the lines were so bad that I had to admit that coming to the park that day was a mistake -- more hassle than pleasure.
Very true, but the number of factors that would have to be taken into account would make any sort of data collection really hard to analyse (and make any meaningful predictions from), in my opinion.
  • Ride down time
  • Other ride down time (if every other major ride is broken down, then the only remaining ride will have a massive queue, even on a quiet day)
  • Ride quality relative to other rides in the park
  • Weather
  • Local, regional, national events
  • Public and school holidays
  • Promotions on tickets
  • Events in the park
Now that's not to say that a regression analysis couldn't be done, especially if the total number of people in the park was known (that would help with the latter bullet points), but you'd still have a hell of a lot of statistics to deal with. Given all of Nemesis' queue data from the last 20+ years of operation, you might just stand a chance at predicting what the queue might be like on an overcast Monday at the start of June, but I really wouldn't stake anything on it!
 

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
Very true, but the number of factors that would have to be taken into account would make any sort of data collection really hard to analyse (and make any meaningful predictions from), in my opinion.
  • Ride down time
  • Other ride down time (if every other major ride is broken down, then the only remaining ride will have a massive queue, even on a quiet day)
  • Ride quality relative to other rides in the park
  • Weather
  • Local, regional, national events
  • Public and school holidays
  • Promotions on tickets
  • Events in the park
Now that's not to say that a regression analysis couldn't be done, especially if the total number of people in the park was known (that would help with the latter bullet points), but you'd still have a hell of a lot of statistics to deal with. Given all of Nemesis' queue data from the last 20+ years of operation, you might just stand a chance at predicting what the queue might be like on an overcast Monday at the start of June, but I really wouldn't stake anything on it!
No, my thinking was less ambitious than that. I was just thinking about a mass of riders logging wait times over the course of a long period of time. So, no, you wouldn't get info specific to seasons, days of the week, or weather conditions, etc. But you would know that in general the lines at X park are much longer than the lines at other parks, and you'd see, for example, that Volcano, not i305, is the consistently long line at Kings Dominion.

This would help you know that maybe you should rearrange your itinerary and head to Volcano first thing in the morning, etc. This would also help you know whether or not the park you're about to visit is, on average, a breeze to cover in one day or not.
 

davidm

Strata Poster
Theres been a few over-keen enthusiasts who try to set websites up to do that sort of thing (crowdsourcing queue data since they don't get any official data) and a few sites that try to collate "live" queue times using park's website information. But the former never really works and the latter isn't much help in predicting stuff beyond school holiday patterns / weekends and so on.

EDIT : like here ; https://queue-times.com/
 

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
Theres been a few over-keen enthusiasts who try to set websites up to do that sort of thing (crowdsourcing queue data since they don't get any official data) and a few sites that try to collate "live" queue times using park's website information. But the former never really works and the latter isn't much help in predicting stuff beyond school holiday patterns / weekends and so on.

EDIT : like here ; https://queue-times.com/

Thanks, davidm.
Yeah, it's the former that I am talking about. Why does it not work? Maybe it's in need of a high-traffic, centralized site that all enthusiasts know, like something linked to by or affiliated with Coasterforce?

Anyway, as much as I'd like to have such a resource, I am definitely not the person to attempt it, for reasons of both time and ability.
 

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
I guess I'm just surprised that such a thing doesn't exist, and surprised by the general apathy for an idea that would obviously enhance most enthusiasts' experience. On another forum, I saw ImagineerJosh start up this topic in a way that I thought was very useful, but the general response was people shooting him down for bringing up the topic. To me, the aversion to a topic that is clearly relevant and useful to all enthusiasts is a bit puzzling.

Maybe it's that most enthusiasts buy flashpasses/fastpasses?
 

davidm

Strata Poster
I guess because no-one cares ; in that no-one who would be geeky enough to collect that data actually cares about the results because they are geeks and already know the answer (don't go to Disneyland on a public holiday).

The only way you would source such things is by collecting the data as a by-product of some other activity (like Google could probably work it out by tracking phones moving through a queue line, like how they track traffic these days). Or if you were the park themselves, who obviously do monitor it, but are not going to give out the details as its commercially sensitive information. To be fair a few parks will give you guidelines on whether is expected to be a busy day (Liseberg for example off the top of my head), but look at opening hours - if they are extended then its busy, if its 10-5 its not likely to be.

Its not an enthusiasts aversion to the idea, its just as enthusiasts you already know the general answer and anything thats trying to be more "scientific" is just guess work as there are so many variables at play - and unless you have ALL the data, its just meaningless.

So write to Google, ask them to do it. ;)
 

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
I guess because no-one cares ; in that no-one who would be geeky enough to collect that data actually cares about the results because they are geeks and already know the answer (don't go to Disneyland on a public holiday).

The only way you would source such things is by collecting the data as a by-product of some other activity (like Google could probably work it out by tracking phones moving through a queue line, like how they track traffic these days). Or if you were the park themselves, who obviously do monitor it, but are not going to give out the details as its commercially sensitive information. To be fair a few parks will give you guidelines on whether is expected to be a busy day (Liseberg for example off the top of my head), but look at opening hours - if they are extended then its busy, if its 10-5 its not likely to be.

Its not an enthusiasts aversion to the idea, its just as enthusiasts you already know the general answer and anything thats trying to be more "scientific" is just guess work as there are so many variables at play - and unless you have ALL the data, its just meaningless.

So write to Google, ask them to do it. ;)
I have seen a lot of enthusiasts over the years talk about how they do homework before visiting a park for the first time, some of which includes scouring the internet for information about expected lines, so I know that a lot of coaster fans definitely do care.

But I hear what you're saying in the rest of your reply. A lot of enthusiasts just go by the instincts they've gained from experience (avoid weekends, holiday weeks, etc.). But then a lot of them also go by what they've heard anecdotally about the park they're about to visit, and if there were a site, they wouldn't have to ask around. It seems a simple and obviously useful thing to me, but, again, I'm not about to volunteer to set it up or help, so I'm not in a position to complain.
 

Howie

Donkey in a hat
Personally, I don't think it is a boring subject - I'm quite anal about visiting parks on the quietest days possible. When you get it right, aw man I tell ya, it's like having an ERT session of an entire park for an entire day. Goon heaven!
I appreciate that some people like a short wait to help build the excitement, to admire the theming of the queue line, watch the preshows etc...
Sod that. Whore the thing first. Stop and admire the detailing after your 5th reride (unless there's other good stuff that needs whoring first).
As a general rule, I just try to go on the quietest days of the week in the quietest months of the season. When a plan is formulating, I'll usually double check with my geeky, goony internet friends by posting a message in a forum.
Works a treat for me :)
I've had some ludicrously quiet days at major theme parks that I feel the need to brag about, so here goes.
Magic Mountain? Yep, all creds done by 2pm, leisurely lunch, rerides til 8pm. Longest wait of the day was 15mins for front row of X2 at night!
Canada's Wonderland? 5 laps of Leviathan in 15min (1 front, 1 back). This was 3 weeks after it opened!
Heide Park? Had 2 full days there with absolutely no queues at all. Bonkers ride count in total. 4 laps of Colossos, back row, without leaving my seat.
Universal Orlando? Smashed both parks in single day, piece of piss.
Even had a day at Thorpe Park last year - had a whole bunch of free fast passes (courtesy of the lovely @nadroJ ), didn't even need 'em it was that quiet.

I know, right? I'm a smug tw@t. :)
 

davidm

Strata Poster
As a general rule, I just try to go on the quietest days of the week in the quietest months of the season
Yeah but thats ^ just my point - you are goony enough to realise that this is how to miss the Qs, you don't need a complicated data-analysis website thingy to tell you that. :)
 

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
Personally, I don't think it is a boring subject - I'm quite anal about visiting parks on the quietest days possible. When you get it right, aw man I tell ya, it's like having an ERT session of an entire park for an entire day. Goon heaven!
I appreciate that some people like a short wait to help build the excitement, to admire the theming of the queue line, watch the preshows etc...
Sod that. Whore the thing first. Stop and admire the detailing after your 5th reride (unless there's other good stuff that needs whoring first).
As a general rule, I just try to go on the quietest days of the week in the quietest months of the season. When a plan is formulating, I'll usually double check with my geeky, goony internet friends by posting a message in a forum.
Works a treat for me :)
I've had some ludicrously quiet days at major theme parks that I feel the need to brag about, so here goes.
Magic Mountain? Yep, all creds done by 2pm, leisurely lunch, rerides til 8pm. Longest wait of the day was 15mins for front row of X2 at night!
Canada's Wonderland? 5 laps of Leviathan in 15min (1 front, 1 back). This was 3 weeks after it opened!
Heide Park? Had 2 full days there with absolutely no queues at all. Bonkers ride count in total. 4 laps of Colossos, back row, without leaving my seat.
Universal Orlando? Smashed both parks in single day, piece of piss.
Even had a day at Thorpe Park last year - had a whole bunch of free fast passes (courtesy of the lovely @nadroJ ), didn't even need 'em it was that quiet.

I know, right? I'm a smug tw@t. :)
Damn -- that Magic Mountain experience is the one that impresses me, as it's the park I know best. I've known that park since it consisted of one swingset and a donkey ride (OK, not quite -- but I've known the park a long time), and way back in the day I used to hit days/nights when it was empty (especially nights), but now that the park is an insane coaster corral, it's either very crowded on a good day, or insanely crowded on a bad day.

So when did you hit it? A rainy Wednesday in November when all the schools were in session?
 
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MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
Yeah but thats ^ just my point - you are goony enough to realise that this is how to miss the Qs, you don't need a complicated data-analysis website thingy to tell you that. :)
Yes, but notice that he also has to ask goony friends for tips about parks he hasn't been to (which is what I do). If there were a site that said, at so-and-so park, average ride wait times are 34 minutes (compared to 15 minutes at other parks), he'd know more of what to expect, and if the site said Coaster X has an average wait time of 10 minutes but Coaster Y has an average wait time of 45 minutes, then he'd know better how to plan out his day.

I don't want to belabor the point any more than I already have, but it doesn't seem to me that such a site would have to be complicated, and it would be a good resource.

On the other hand, the link you gave me tries to maintain live wait times (not general, average wait times) and that, it seems to me, is a far more complicated and ambitious thing.
 

Hixee

Flojector
Staff member
Administrator
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That is nice -- thanks! Unfortunately, they only have it for four parks -- I'd love to see that expanded to all parks.
Maybe you should volunteer to help them run the site and manage the data, then? ;)

Still not sure it's all that useful without all of the other information I was talking about - but then I'm a fan of "big data" type stuff, so... :p
 

MestnyiGeroi

Giga Poster
Maybe you should volunteer to help them run the site and manage the data, then? ;)
No, as I've already said, I don't have the time or the ability to help, so I know I'm not in a position to complain. I am just saying what I think would be useful.
 

CanobieFan

Strata Poster
Too bad it never worked out
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!s...e/rec.roller-coaster/zuXwL3KyqPQ/ZGyoEntPrW4J

Whentoride.com was run by 'Coasterfanatic' (who also use to run a site by that name, famous for his coaster count ticker/banners) it worked off user submissions but went offline some 10 years ago. I would try and add wait times as a user myself....but since it was a limited pool of submissions, it never really gained much steam outside of say "parks are busy in the summer!"
 
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