Lifthill speeds and launch intensities

[Ireeb]

Hi everyone,
I was playing around a lot with FVD and NoLimits recently, but there is one thing I am still unsure about:
Lifthill speeds. Maybe I just suck at estimating but I have no idea how fast any of the lifthills of the coasters I rode go, not even of the coasters I rode 10 times or more.
So if anyone knows the speed of the lift of a certain coaster/coaster model or has a link where I can look it up, I'd appreciate it a lot.
I'm especially curious on the following coaster models' lift hill speeds:
B&M Flying Coaster (working on this right now)
Modern B&M hyper
Intamin Cable Lift
Mack Big Dipper
Mack Hyper
Any vertical lift like Eurofighter or Infinity Coaster
GCI

The next question, same topic, is the intensity of launches.
Once again, I appreciate any number you know, but I'm especially curious about how many g's the most intense LSM launch pulls.
Taron is often advertised as the coaster with the strongest LSM launch, but it also has pretty heavy trains. Are there coasters, like Eurofighters with launches, that are more intense since they have lighter cars and therefore the LSMs don't need to be as strong?
And what is the strongest existing launch overall (regardless of launch technology)?

I appreciate any information, data, links/sources etc. on this!
Thanks in advance!

 

[Hixee]

Lift hill speed is actually one that I've never really dialed in myself. My tactic, which isn't fool proof, is to find a coaster of a similar height to the one I'm building in NL2 and simply try to match the two by trial and error. From memory, slow lifts are around 1m/s, mildly fast lifts are around 2m/s, and the fastest ones (thinking Skyrush-esque) are about 3m/s.

I've never actually seen the figures formally published, so I think without actually finding a good reference photo and running the numbers yourself, there's no real source for that information. If you're using FVD the maths will be child's play for you, but let me know if you want to run it through with someone. Happy to help.

As for launches - equally tricky story in my opinion. I don't know any numbers for any real certainty, other than just running the numbers based on the quoted acceleration rates.

Taron is often advertised as the coaster with the strongest LSM launch, but it also has pretty heavy trains. Are there coasters, like Eurofighters with launches, that are more intense since they have lighter cars and therefore the LSMs don't need to be as strong?

I would infer that "strongest" in this regard means "highest acceleration", rather than "most powerful". You're absolutely right that a Eurofighter needs an awful lot less power to achieve the same acceleration as those big Taron trains, but I don't think that they'd advertise that? It's pretty tenuous...

That said, NL only cares about the acceleration rate, right? So really you only need to worry about that. As a couple of examples:
Karacho: 0-56mph in 1.6s = 1.59G [LSM]
Red Force: 0-112mph in 5s = 1.10G [LSM]
Top Thrill Dragster: 0-120mph in 4s = 1.37G [Hydraulic]
Dodonpa: 0-112mph in 1.6s = 3.18G [Air]
Maxx Force: 0-78mph in 2s = 1.78G [Air]

These "average" acceleration values are relatively low.

The quoted figure for OCT Thrust SSC1000 is 4.5G, so with a 83mph top speed that equates to a launch in 0.84s. Based on a POV, the train is actually on that launch track for at least two seconds once the train starts moving.

The crux of it is that the 'average' figure is a bit useless. The acceleration profiles in reality - even with an LSM (the most controllable of the lot) - aren't linear, which I think throws the numbers off. Short of getting the data off the manufacturers, I don't know how you'd do any better. Of course, NL doesn't make those non-linear launches very easy to do, so maybe it doesn't really matter?

And what is the strongest existing launch overall (regardless of launch technology)?

I had always heard that it was Dodonpa, which seems like a pretty good guess based off the stats I've come across browsing for those figures above. Nothing else springs to mind that would have a stronger one...

 

[Ireeb]

That's already a lot of useful information.
Dodonpa has over 3g on acceleration? And I thought 2g is a lot already (with NL2's default of 0.8g).
I think the average acceleration is good enough for NL purposes since the most important thing is the length of the launch. You can't really feel or see the acceleration in NL2, but you can see when a launch section looks too short or too long.
Sometimes I feel like not even the parks know the acceleration of their coasters. For example, Karacho has a rolling launch, not from 0, but they always advertise it as "from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph). That's why I wouldn't be surprised if Taron wasn't actually the most intense one but just the strongest one from the technical side. I had a discussion with someone in the YouTube comments because of that, he claimed that Fluch von Novgorod has a more intense launch. I didn't ride Fluch von Novgorod yet, so I can't compare.

Actually, I could get lifthill speeds from videos.
Don't know why I didn't think about that yet.
For Manta in Orlando, I figured out around 2.4 m/s with a 40° lift (which I estimated from pictures). Looks like the numbers you had in mind are accurate.
(And knowing myself, I will probably still make them a bit faster because I hate lifthills that's also one reason why I love launch coasters.)

Thanks a lot for all this information, it really helps me a lot. Especially since I am thinking of building a Flying Coaster with both a lifthill and then a mid-course-launch. B&M would probably never do that, but that's not gonna stop me. Also, no pretzel loops.

 

[Hixee]

Thanks a lot for all this information, it really helps me a lot. Especially since I am thinking of building a Flying Coaster with both a lifthill and then a mid-course-launch. B&M would probably never do that, but that's not gonna stop me. Also, no pretzel loops.

It's called No Limits for a reason.

Happy that that was vaguely helpful. Do share your finished creation down in the Coaster Games section of the forum!

 

[Ireeb]

Every time I start a coaster I plan on sharing it, but I am often too perfectionistic and then I don't Let's see how this one turns out and if I finish it (that's also a problem I have, I often have great ideas in the beginning but then it gets boring in the end.)
I have also noticed that my "test" of the Manta lifthill was incorrect, I accidentally started the coaster about 10 Meters above ground, making it less tall than it should be. I corrected this and now I ended up with 2.7 m/s or 10 km/h, which, of course, is still within your numbers. Just wanted to add this in case someone ever has the same question and stumbles upon this thread

 

[Hixee]

I corrected this and now I ended up with 2.7 m/s or 10 km/h, which, of course, is still within your numbers. Just wanted to add this in case someone ever has the same question and stumbles upon this thread

Okay, so this makes me think that actually the numbers are probably more like: Slow = 1.5m/s, Med = 3.0 m/s, Fast = 5m/s. Maybe?

 

[Ireeb]

Yeah, I think that's more accurate. Especially if you look by how much faster (for example) Intamin's lifts are compared to B&M. Maybe I can try to figure out more numbers in the future, but now I'm working on my flying coaster I already have a piece of music that I'd like to use as onride music. Would fit well I think.

 

[HeartlineCoaster]

Karacho: 0-56mph in 1.6s = 1.59G [LSM]

I never believe that one, cos it's a rolling launch.

Lifthill speeds immediately made me think of Flying Aces so here's one:
"Ferrari World breaks a number of records, operating now the coaster with the steepest (51° angle) and fastest (up to 29 km/h) cable lift"