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Batwings

madhjsp

madhjsp

Giga Poster
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This surprised me, but according to RCDB, a coaster with this element hasn't been built since Afterburn in 1999! In fact, other than Montu and Goudurix, the only other coasters that have or had them are Arrow custom loopers built between 1980 and 1991.*

Link: http://www.rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&el=8870&page=1&order=-10

*Steel Phantom also had one, but isn't listed in that hyperlink. I guess Moonsault Scramble's batwing-like element also counts.

What's that all about? Stand-up coasters went the way of the Dodo for good reason, but I can't figure out why batwings seem to have followed a similar path. These are great elements, forceful and fun. I can say that on Montu & Afterburn (the only two batwings I've ridden), the batwings are the best part!

Does anybody actually know (or would be willing to venture an educated guess) why we haven't seen a coaster with a batwing in 13 years?
 
It could be that they're "too forceful" for modern companies (especially B&M) who seem to be shying away from very strong elements.

It could also simply be aesthetics. A cobra roll visually looks more impressive and performs much the same function.

Finally, it could be engineering. The batwing kind of "dips down", so you either need a high entry point, or to dig down. Again, for an element that does the same as a cobra roll which is much more flexible...

My ideas anyway.
 
furie said:
It could be that they're "too forceful" for modern companies (especially B&M) who seem to be shying away from very strong elements.

It could also simply be aesthetics. A cobra roll visually looks more impressive and performs much the same function.

Finally, it could be engineering. The batwing kind of "dips down", so you either need a high entry point, or to dig down. Again, for an element that does the same as a cobra roll which is much more flexible...

My ideas anyway.
Click to expand...

All plausible points. I think the big one is probably that third one.. both of the B&M's that have it use a trench, which obviously ramps up the cost of construction.

Your first point is also interesting. I'll agree that they are similar to cobra rolls but are noticeably more forceful. With that in mind, you'd think a company like Intamin, which seems to have no qualms about making their coasters border on too intense (we're looking at you, I305 & Skyrush), would've at least attempted one by this point.
 
Ive yet to ride a B&M Batwing, but Vortexs can be somewhat rough on the head.

If memory serves me right, trimmed Steel Phantom caused near concussion and non trimmed caused migraines.

If may very well be a cost issue, or it could be that the element itself has lost the publics interest.
 
I'd imagine it's because they are hard to place. They always go below ground level.

It's a shame, because they are the best inversion.
 
Furie said:
A cobra roll visually looks more impressive and performs much the same function.
Click to expand...

To look at, then I'd agree that a cobra roll looks a lot nicer/neater. I don't think they ride the same at all though. Personally, with a cobra roll it feels like you get two "half" inversions to make up the whole if that makes sense? Yeah, it inverts twice, but each half feels very much like only part of a complete element. Plus, very few have much force at all.

A batwing (snigger) on the other hand is two, very much standalone, very forceful inversions right after each other.

Bu yeah, must basically be the trench that's required.
 
Batwings also require a slower entering speed than other inversions to help keep forces down, which means it must be placed towards the end of a ride/after a mcbr. Imagine the element, and the train enters from the middle, meaning it will gain speed throughout the element. This means you cannot throw it in whenever you want in a layout.

A Cobra Roll on the other hand can be entered at a normal speed as you are entering from the bottom (and slows at the top of the element). It can be added anywhere, just like the Dive Loop or Immelman, and is often the second or third inversion in any layout.
 
furie said:
It could be that they're "too forceful" for modern companies (especially B&M) who seem to be shying away from very strong elements.

It could also simply be aesthetics. A cobra roll visually looks more impressive and performs much the same function.

Finally, it could be engineering. The batwing kind of "dips down", so you either need a high entry point, or to dig down. Again, for an element that does the same as a cobra roll which is much more flexible...

My ideas anyway.
Click to expand...

All very logical.

Just a personal point: I like the aesthetics of a batwing, I think they look cool!
 
I've only ridden Arrow Multilooper Batwings - Vortex and Viper. Both are taken rather slow with a good deal of hangtime, too much for my taste. I do look forward to finally hopping on a B&M invert one.

Cobra Roll's still rule as my favorite inversion. Raptor's <3
 
I would love to try one on an invert
I went on Goudirix and it didn't really stand out for me but then that ride is soooo rough and the back seat definitely didn't help
Goudirix's wasn't that far through the ride so it's pretty fast

Looking forward to seeing one on SW7 though...
 
^ Dragon Mountain's an intriguing coaster to me. It doesn't look like much of a ride as far as intensity goes, but it's just so incredibly unlike anything else Arrow (or pretty much any major steel coaster manufacturer, for that matter) has ever done that I'd love to get to ride it someday. Excellent themeing as well.
 
The bowtie is the only thing I liked about Dragon Mountain (other than the station). The elements are too far apart & the themeing is just so random & half-ass.
I really like the batwings on Afterburn & Montu, but they sort of pale in comparison to the forces I felt on Great America Scream Machine when it first opened & flew threw the entire circuit. Seems like every year they slowed the train down more on the MCBR until they finally just stopped the damn thing just before the drop into the batwing.
 
ECG said:
The bowtie is the only thing I liked about Dragon Mountain (other than the station). The elements are too far apart & the themeing is just so random & half-ass.
Click to expand...

^ By "excellent themeing," I guess I was mostly referring to the station & trains.

This is cool:
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But the fact that they built the steel structure but didn't even cover the helix until 23 years (!) later... definitely half-assed.

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And I do like the concept of the bowtie. So for that and the theme, I'd love to ride it if I ever find myself in the area.
 
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