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Alton Towers | Wicker Man | GCI Wood

JoshC.

Strata Poster
If we wanted to be technical, whilst it isn't the same company by name, it's still (some of) the same people who are involved with the company. Merlin is, crudely speaking, just Tussauds with another layer or two of management sprinkled in and around.

But that's not really the point I was trying to make. They've got a ride which is largely seen by many as a world class coaster. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's the best or world class (as you should be able to appreciate why it's seen by many as so good) or when it was built. They've got a coaster right under their noses which is "world class", so yes, they can know what it world class.

Of course, it's all just marketing guff to capture the public's attention. The same phrase was used in 2002 when Thorpe were building Nemesis Inferno. It'll work, there's nothing stopping them doing it and it sounds a lot better than 'our first wooden coaster' / 'the UK's first wooden coaster in over 20 years' / whatever more sensible way they could have marketed it. Don't see why people get their knickers in a twist by that phrase.
 

Psycoshark1

Roller Poster
If we wanted to be technical, whilst it isn't the same company by name, it's still (some of) the same people who are involved with the company. Merlin is, crudely speaking, just Tussauds with another layer or two of management sprinkled in and around.

But that's not really the point I was trying to make. They've got a ride which is largely seen by many as a world class coaster. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's the best or world class (as you should be able to appreciate why it's seen by many as so good) or when it was built. They've got a coaster right under their noses which is "world class", so yes, they can know what it world class.

Of course, it's all just marketing guff to capture the public's attention. The same phrase was used in 2002 when Thorpe were building Nemesis Inferno. It'll work, there's nothing stopping them doing it and it sounds a lot better than 'our first wooden coaster' / 'the UK's first wooden coaster in over 20 years' / whatever more sensible way they could have marketed it. Don't see why people get their knickers in a twist by that phrase.
Its not the phrase that bugs me. Its that Nemesis was designed to be an amazing ride experience first and foremost but now everything Merlin has installed since has been a basic coaster layout with very little or no imagination. They then just come up with some poor gimmick or IP to make the ride seem more exciting than it really is. I would have much preferred to see the previously planned Canada Creek wooden coaster (When it was Tussauds) than Saw the Ride at Thorpe Park, which is essentially a Rough as **** basic layout Eurofighter with a horror movie IP to make it more appealing. Good coasters elsewhere in the world don't need an IP to make them good. It is the ride that does it. Look at Saw then tell me you wouldn't have preferred to ride this before the new "Management" decided to can it in favour of the more cost effective Eurofighter that is now one of the poorest rides in the country. 2009 Canada Creek Plans.jpg 2009 Canada Creek Plans 2.jpg
 

Smithy

Strata Poster
Its not the phrase that bugs me. Its that Nemesis was designed to be an amazing ride experience first and foremost but now everything Merlin has installed since has been a basic coaster layout with very little or no imagination.


Nah I'm not having that.

Oblivion was a worlds first, with a ridiculously good theme and marketing campaign built up for months of construction and throughout it's opening season too. You can argue it's a basic coaster layout with the benefit of hindsight and seeing current progressions, but the imagination around it was relatively unheard of at the time.

Likewise with Air, first(ish) of it's kind, huge imagination went into it.

Hell, even Thirteen was a stunning piece of imagination and a decent coaster, that was left down by over-promising and under-delivering.

Merlin are far from perfect and they haven't got close to Nemesis, and some of their recent investments have lacked that spark. But to say that all they've installed are basic coasters with no imagination is ridiculous hyperbole. They may not be world beating installations, but they're still far and away better than most other companies manage.
 

Serena

Miss CoasterForce 2016
Staff member
Social Media Team
Also Saw doesn't have a "basic layout" it's a custom Eurofighter. The first and last sections are one of a kind. And it's fab.

It's impossible from plans to tell if a woodie 'wood' have been better. Some woodies are also rough as hell, too.
 

Ethan

Strata Poster
^It was a GCI though... and it had Millennium Flyer trains.

Just because it's a GCI doesn't mean it's the second coming of Jesus. To be honest, Saw is a better investment than this (the Canada Creek woodie) most likely would have been.
 

Ethan

Strata Poster
But a massive piece of poop GCI is still better than a Eurofighter.

^ In terms of marketing the coaster though? It's really not.

Saw has quite a few assets to market. Vertical lift, beyond vertical drop, record for steepest freefall drop, multiple inversions, and a popular intellectual property. How would you go about marketing the GCI with the same impact? Yeah, it's made of wood... There's nothing else that remarkable about it really.I'm not saying the GCI would have been a bad coaster, but I'm certain that the Eurofighter was a far better investment for the park. Besides... We've seen how good Merlin are at looking after their wooden coasters with the current Colossos issue... I can't imagine the GCI would last much longer than a Eurofighter at Thorpe Park.
 
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Matt N

CF Legend
Hi guys. I'm new here. I just wanted to say that I am cautiously optimistic about this attraction. I know it's only going to be a family coaster, but I'm still cautiously optimistic. I attempted to recreate the layout in Planet Coaster, and it actually looked to keep a decent pace of above 35mph for the whole layout apart from the very end, and that was only because I built the station way too high! Can't wait for March 2018!
 

Ben

CF Legend
To be fair, Abyss came a fair few years after Saw, so I don't think we can hold that against Merlin and their originality as at the time of opening, it was one of a kind.

But her statement of 'are one of a kind' was written in 2017, not 2009, so that's moot.
 

Ethan

Strata Poster
^ True, I get your point, and technically her point is incorrect. I still don't think Saw should be seen as less imaginative because a park on the other side of the planet wanted to rip it off!
 

Sandman

Giga Poster
Saw is based on pre-existing ideas with regard to the theming/visual elements, so I would say it's not that imaginative. I also think Eurofighters are one of the least imaginative coaster types out there in terms of layout and elements. It's not total ****, for sure, but it isn't a work of art or anything close to pioneering.
 

Ethan

Strata Poster
Saw is based on pre-existing ideas with regard to the theming/visual elements, so I would say it's not that imaginative. I also think Eurofighters are one of the least imaginative coaster types out there in terms of layout and elements. It's not total :emoji_poop:, for sure, but it isn't a work of art or anything close to pioneering.

Yes, Saw uses assets from the original property, as does every attraction based on an external IP. And whilst I agree that nothing about Saw is pioneering, I'd say it's a lot more interesting than a mediocre looking wooden coaster, which was the original discussion point. Whilst I'm sure the GCI would have been fun, it would have been a lot more difficult to market, and I very much doubt the park would have had anywhere near as much success with it as they did with the Eurofighter.

Which is why I was pretty surprised when the plans for SW8 were released. It looks like a decent enough coaster, but with nothing particularly special about it from what we can see so far, it'll be interesting to see how successful it is for the park. I'm not saying all coasters need gimmicks to be good experiences and successful, but it's evidence that taglines and gimmicks often go down well.
 
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Sandman

Giga Poster
I wasn't really commenting on whether the woodie would have been more successful than Saw, I just wanted to bash Saw :p

But to be fair, I think the success (or failure) of SW8 comes down to the marketing and not so much the ride. Firstly, why is this even a Secret Weapon? Is the definition of Secret Weapon basically just 'new major investment' now? I think this immediately puts them on the wrong footing with the usually loyal enthusiasts. At least with Thirteen, it had the whole 'world first' thing, which fits into the SW bracket. This is just a family wooden coaster which has the potential to be 'moderately fun'. Then there's the theme and snippets of marketing. It's clearly not suited to a ride of this size. Maybe the ride will be fun and the theme will be fantastic, highly detailed and "immersive". But it still just seems a bit mismatched? It's the equivalent of a horror film that uses all the scariest bits in the trailer to make it look more extreme and graphic.

Look at Oblivion. Perfect marketing really. Build you up, tease you and make you focus on one moment of terror. Then that terror is delivered quite literally. This Wicker stuff is actually pretty dark material, yet at the end you're going to ride a family ****ing GCI. Nonsensical stuff to me.
 
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