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Six Flags Fiesta Texas | Dr. Diabolical's Cliffhanger | B&M Dive Coaster | 2022

CrashCoaster

Strata Poster
After thinking about this a little more I think I'm starting to appreciate it more than I did yesterday. It's unique compared to other dive coasters, but even then I don't think it will be the best. But we shall see.

Also, I am curious as to what the track code for this will be, given that it will be 7-across seating. I'm gonna guess that the track code will be D7-A or something similar to that.

This looks really good! Please though B&M, DO NOT put vests on this. Valravn's drop is dreary due to them, if this thing has airtime it will be severly crippled with those vests. If it doesn't, it may be actually be a truely great coaster.
Unlike Valravn, the vests on this will not lock. Luckily Valravn is the only dive with locking vests, so at least these won't be as bad as those.
 

Rupert

Mega Poster
I know that this is subjective (and maybe also influenced by body shape etc?), but I didn’t feel Valravn’s restraints impeded the ride experience in any way. There was still airtime and a good range of forces - I felt all the talk about the vests killing the ride were all massively exaggerated. The Swarm’s restraints to me feel much more restrictive for example.
 

Hutch

Strata Poster
I felt all the talk about the vests killing the ride were all massively exaggerated. The Swarm’s restraints to me feel much more restrictive for example.
This 100%.

People need to understand that the airtime is still there, regardless of the restraint. What, the vests keep your ass in your seat? Oh boo hoo. Airtime does not mean you're being lifted out of your seat... it's all about the forces you're feeling. I feel like a lot of people convince themselves that vests aren't good. You're setting yourselves up for disappointment if you're focusing on the restraint during the ride.

The only vests I don't like are Swarm and Wild Eagle. Those locked for me (they might've unlocked Eagle's since I rode it) and were actually very comfortable pressing down on my chest and collar bones.

I'm not convinced that Valravn's locked as I didn't have a problem with them. In fact, Valvran's drop feels similar to Griffon and Sheikra. I mean, maybe I'd notice a difference if I rode those coasters within a week of each other. 🤷‍♂️

So I honestly don't care what restraints Cliffhanger ends up with. The ride doesn't look super exciting, but I'm glad Six Flags is working with B&M and larger investments again, and it'll be a solid fit for the park.
 

bob_3_

Giga Poster
This looks really good! Please though B&M, DO NOT put vests on this. Valravn's drop is dreary due to them, if this thing has airtime it will be severly crippled with those vests. If it doesn't, it may be actually be a truely great coaster.
I didnt have a problem on Valkyria, infact its one of my all time favourite B&Ms.
 

Jackson

Mega Poster
This 100%.

People need to understand that the airtime is still there, regardless of the restraint. What, the vests keep your ass in your seat? Oh boo hoo. Airtime does not mean you're being lifted out of your seat... it's all about the forces you're feeling. I feel like a lot of people convince themselves that vests aren't good. You're setting yourselves up for disappointment if you're focusing on the restraint during the ride.

The only vests I don't like are Swarm and Wild Eagle. Those locked for me (they might've unlocked Eagle's since I rode it) and were actually very comfortable pressing down on my chest and collar bones.

I'm not convinced that Valravn's locked as I didn't have a problem with them. In fact, Valvran's drop feels similar to Griffon and Sheikra. I mean, maybe I'd notice a difference if I rode those coasters within a week of each other. 🤷‍♂️

So I honestly don't care what restraints Cliffhanger ends up with. The ride doesn't look super exciting, but I'm glad Six Flags is working with B&M and larger investments again, and it'll be a solid fit for the park.
I just rode Wild Eagle a few weeks ago, and I think they were locked.
 

solarfall

Roller Poster
This 100%.

People need to understand that the airtime is still there, regardless of the restraint. What, the vests keep your ass in your seat? Oh boo hoo. Airtime does not mean you're being lifted out of your seat... it's all about the forces you're feeling. I feel like a lot of people convince themselves that vests aren't good. You're setting yourselves up for disappointment if you're focusing on the restraint during the ride.

I respectfully kind of disagree with this. There isn't a scientific definition of what counts as "airtime", but even if you're going to argue that feeling a negative G-force is airtime, it's still reasonable to say that people enjoy floating or being lifted from their seats as a result of negative G-forces, whatever you want to call that sensation. So if one restraint style allows that sensation while another restraint style on the same model restricts it, I think that's a totally valid and reasonable criticism.

Though that being said, I personally often find the airtime on Griffon/Sheikra to be rather overrated in the first place, so I'd hesitate to say that vest restraints totally ruin these rides or anything like that.
 

Furiustobaco

Mega Poster
People need to understand that the airtime is still there, regardless of the restraint. What, the vests keep your ass in your seat? Oh boo hoo. Airtime does not mean you're being lifted out of your seat... it's all about the forces you're feeling. I feel like a lot of people convince themselves that vests aren't good. You're setting yourselves up for disappointment if you're focusing on the restraint during the ride.
I did not really have any thoughts going in, i was expecting a fun ride akin to Oblivion. Then the drop happened, and i felt barely any force or weightlessness at all. The whole point of a dive IMO is that drop, and it was heavily neutered for me. It is like driving a Ferrari but only being allowed to do 20.
I am not convincing myself, it was legit a deal breaker for me. My enjoyment of that coaster was low, i rank it below Corkscrew in the same park for god sake.

Oblivion has a shorter and shallower drop, but you totally feel weightless and are given a airtime like sensation going down, a very strong one as well. Valravn certainly has that pull, but unlike Oblivion you do not have that freedom to really feel that drop. Sometimes restraints play a pivotal role on a ride, they can really make or break a coaster! Look at the buzz bar woodies for example!

Also airtime is subjective. Yes i like to come out of my seat when i go over an airtime moment lol. It is a legit thing i like, and a criticism i have of Valravn. I am sure you like to come out of your seat on some rides? Boo-hoo, i like to come out of my seat on a ride with a central focus being the drop and the sensation of the drop?

It may be a controversial opinion, but i believe it is a legit one nevertheless. I need to ride the newer vests though, which hopefully may sort that criticism, though the original restraints were actually fine as they were! It just kind of struck me as odd when the original dive coaster has a better drop than one built nearly 20 years later..

Anyway onto this ride, props to Six Flags for going with B&M again, i personally would of never guessed a dive.It looks like fun, i think Fiesta Texas already has a pretty great lineup so this will be a welcome addition. It won't be the best dive, or anyway near the best coaster in the park, but it looks like fun. I love how out of character this addition is, even the theme! No DC crap, no overused names. Maybe Six Flags will stop trying to shove DC down our throats?
 

cookie

Hyper Poster
Only time I felt Valkyria's vests were an issue was when they felt a bit tight while sitting in the station waiting for dispatch. On-ride, I barely felt them at all. Hot take, but I even prefer the vests on Valkyria over Vekoma's counterpart, if Paris's Space Mountain is anything to go by.
 

SeanC

Roller Poster
Anyway onto this ride, props to Six Flags for going with B&M again, i personally would of never guessed a dive.It looks like fun, i think Fiesta Texas already has a pretty great lineup so this will be a welcome addition. It won't be the best dive, or anyway near the best coaster in the park, but it looks like fun. I love how out of character this addition is, even the theme! No DC crap, no overused names. Maybe Six Flags will stop trying to shove DC down our throats?

It is a DC character, albeit a super-obscure one.

If they're not going with the cliche justice league characters anymore, then I'm so psyched for Six Flags to buy the New York New York casino and rename the coaster "Doctor Manhattan's Manhattan Express."
 

Fluorineer

Mega Poster
I recall reading somewhere that B&M Dive Coasters are not technically vertical but something around 88º so as to make sure that the road wheels are touching the rails at all times during the drop. Well, I don't know how they are going to pull that off with a 95º drop.

Specifically at 90 degrees, it's possible that neither the top wheels, nor the upstop wheels are touching the rails. I'm not sure if this can even be problematic, but it is noteworthy.

With a 95 degree drop, there is a single point at which the top wheels (I'm sure it has a name) leave the track and the upstop wheels immediately take over.

EDIT: actually, the angle at which the train sort of levitates should be somewhere close to, but not exactly 90 degrees, because if the center of mass is not on the same axis as the Track (which it shouldn't be), a perfectly vertical train is going to slant forward.
 

bdrizzyb

Roller Poster
This ride is definitely something Merlin would do at one of there parks, the whole dark theme, this would fit Thorpe park so well!!
I've Hurd Talk about this ride having an immersive pre show (screamscape)!?!? Plus could it actually be themed??? Like actual theming in a six flags park??? I'd love them to pull this out of the bag as a theatrical immersive experience. The backstory is good enough and the ride looks outstanding! Fingers crossed!!
 

Peet

Hyper Poster
Specifically at 90 degrees, it's possible that neither the top wheels, nor the upstop wheels are touching the rails. I'm not sure if this can even be problematic, but it is noteworthy.

With a 95 degree drop, there is a single point at which the top wheels (I'm sure it has a name) leave the track and the upstop wheels immediately take over.

EDIT: actually, the angle at which the train sort of levitates should be somewhere close to, but not exactly 90 degrees, because if the center of mass is not on the same axis as the Track (which it shouldn't be), a perfectly vertical train is going to slant forward.
With most modern coasters (and all B&Ms ever) the upstop wheels are spring loaded against the rails so they're in contact at all times. You can see them turning even on the brakes/station/lifthill, unlike old Vekomas etc.
 

Gooberry

Roller Poster
I don't think they're that diabolical or trying to trick us... I think people have been diving way too deep into trying to figure out these clues. Taken at face value, the Matterhorn is a landmark that immediately makes you think of Switzerland. So B&M is likely the manufacturer. At least we won't be left hanging much longer, only about an hour until the announcement!
Made an account just to say... Someone must've known something lol
 

KommissarLT

Roller Poster
It is a DC character, albeit a super-obscure one.

If they're not going with the cliche justice league characters anymore, then I'm so psyched for Six Flags to buy the New York New York casino and rename the coaster "Doctor Manhattan's Manhattan Express."
The announcement refers to Dr. Diabolical as a female, while the DC Comics character is male, unless it's a reinvention of the character (which it probably isnt) then I don't think this is a DC-themed coaster.
 

CrashCoaster

Strata Poster
Track is in production:-
228999569_1292399264540999_4862743255105802674_n.png


(Jeffrey Siebert confirmed this is Cliffhanger track. Appears to be the base of the lift hill.)
 

Hyde

Matt SR
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
The announcement refers to Dr. Diabolical as a female, while the DC Comics character is male, unless it's a reinvention of the character (which it probably isnt) then I don't think this is a DC-themed coaster.
MuLtIvErSe!!!!

Intrigued like everyone else on what a beyond-vertical drop will look like on a Dive Machine. Also here to concur that vest restraints won't kill this ride.
 
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