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Pro-life or Pro-choice?

Are you:

  • Pro-life?

    Votes: 4 17.4%
  • Pro-choice?

    Votes: 19 82.6%

  • Total voters
    23

nadroJ

CF Legend
So, one of the big debates in American politics at the moment is whether or not abortion should remain legal. It's obviously a very sensitive and yet very serious issue. Last year Planned Parenthood (a clinic in America that deals with family planning, they help girls with abortions among other things like contraception and 'female' health) received massive government funding cuts and caused outrage because many felt this was because of the 'pro-life' mentality decided abortion was wrong and therefore cutting funds for it.

Now, to me, it doesn't seem like it should be an issue, which is why I'm pro-choice. It's each to their own, everybody has their own life to live and therefore I don't think this is a decision that should be decided for me by the government.

So yeah, your views basically.

PS, I'm not pregnant ;]
 

SaiyanHajime

CF Legend
A foetus should not have more rights than an person.

Pretty much the crux of it.

But, prevention is better than cure.

This is a boring and overdone debate though, lets spice it up a bit... Should men have a say in abortions? Oooooo.
 

nealbie

CF Legend
If they're the father and the unprotected intercourse was not objected to by the mother, then yes. He has the same right. It's as simple as that really. Not controversial at all.

I also agree that human rights should not apply to that in the womb. Spiritually it exists, religiously too, but it does not warrant human rights. Abortion should remain legal, but the state should be allowed to intervene (read final paragraph).

Lol, between us we've ended something the Americans find impossible to solve in two posts.




As an aside. It is my personal opinion that the 'deadline' for abortion should be set at the earliest that premature birth has been known to successfully be undertaken and produce healthy babies. Not as stupidly late as 30 weeks! Now THAT'S a tad controversial, Joey. :p
 

Snoo

The Legend
Just to note.. if this topic gets out of hand.. it will be closed and the offenders will be banned.

But to me.. you have the right to choose as this issue has so many variables. I definitely wasnt sure I wanted a child but I owned up to my responsibility and wouldnt have it any other way.
 
Nope, I don't think abortion should be allowed. Okay, so if your kid is gonna be a vegetable then maybe, but just because it might have some sort of mild mental illness doesn't make it okay to kill it, and just because you were too irresponsible to take a pill or use a condom doesn't make it okay either. Okay, so a condom could break and nothing is 100% reliable and blah blah, but that's the responsibility that comes along with having sex. There's rape too, but I disagree with abortion in that sense of the word because there's always adoption.

Call me narrow minded, but it's ridiculous to kill something just because you don't want it or don't "think" it could have a good life. Someone out there wants it so at least give it up for adoption rather than killing it. Having a kid is a blessing some people never get to have, so don't be greedy and **** the world then kill the baby every time you get pregnant.
 

Venom2053

Hyper Poster
nadroJ said:
Now, to me, it doesn't seem like it should be an issue, which is why I'm pro-choice. It's each to their own, everybody has their own life to live and therefore I don't think this is a decision that should be decided for me by the government.

Pretty much sums my opinion up. If you live in a Democracy you should have freedom of choice. Yes, I think abortions are bad and should be avoid at most costs, but if a woman has been raped and is now pregnant she should have the right to choose. Pretty sensitive topic to address as many people feel very strongly about pro-life and pro-choice, but one that has to be brought up sooner or later.
 

tomahawk

Strata Poster
I'm pro-life, and the only times abortion (in my eyes) is possible death to mother, rape, incest. Other than that, you did the deed, or wanted it, so you should know the consequences. Yeah it stems from my religious and political views, but I am against it. There are so many people who want kids that can't have them, so if you really don't want it, give it up for closed adoption, then you won't have anything to do with it.

Even with that though, it should only be allowed in the first trimester, not up until the third which is what some think is fine. A girl in my high school had 5 abortions in 3 years. She didn't use any form of b.c. because she was catholic, which is just an asinine excuse, especially if you are just gonna go get an abortion. I'm not as passionate about it as some, but if my lady got preggers, it wouldn't be a question.
 

Hixee

Flojector
Staff member
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I think this is a very difficult subject to post on, the same way that euthanasia is a difficult subject to discuss. I think that each side of the fence's arguments are equally as valid, and I would find it very hard to justify or support my views. Most of all this, much like religion, isn't going to change my opinion of anyone on this site, provided they have the respect for the other party.

Having said that, I am pro-choice. I think I agree with allowing a pregnancy to be terminated (up to a point, I don't know a lot of the facts about the latest date and survival odds etc), and I think that I agree with Neal in that the man should have a say in the matter too. I'm also not aware of the scientific capabilities (as in, can they detect a mental illness before the 'record' for a premature birth?), but I provided you can detect it early enough, I don't think it's that bad to say that you'd want an abortion if you're child was going to have a **** existence. I just wouldn't want that at all. I know I'm not the one actually having the abortion, and I may feel differently if the child was mine, but I just think I'd rather think that I saved a child from growing up with a horrible affliction and eventually dying in their mid-thirties.

One quote I did see (hear technically, but) about this was to do with pro-life-ers. I don't know if I agree and it could be seen as provocative, if so, please delete, but I feel it makes quite a good point:
"Pro-life-ers be doctor, foster a kid, that's how you make it possible for people to live"
I think there is a lot to be said for that sentiment.

That's about all I've got to say on this really, I don't want this topic to get out of hand, so be warned people, let's keep it civilised and sensible.
 

Ian

From CoasterForce
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I see abortion as another form of birth control. The only difference between abortion and a condom/coil/pill/anal sex, is nature has taken it's course and a life form is going through the creation process.

Personally I can't remember anything from my time inside my mummy's tummy so I very much doubt it causes the foetus any pain.

It's up to the people involved.
 

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Hixee said:
I think that each side of the fence's arguments are equally as valid

This (almost), so therefore the only sensible option is Pro-Choice ;)

If there's a split of opinion, then choice is the only fair way of doing things. There are a multitude of horrors and atrocities happening in the world to people - start by fixing those and then move to issues like abortion when the world is a healthy, happy and full bellied place... ;)

I think that, like Neal, the father should also have a choice but only if they're committed to helping raise the child alone (I've actually never understood why it's always assumed the woman should be the sole parent), or have the right to say "don't set the CSA on me for my money then" ;)

I'd like to agree with the dates being brought forward, but it takes three months to get an appointment to see you doctor on the NHS as it is :p

And please remember that a persons view on this doesn't make them the devil incarnate.
 

kimahri

CF Legend
+1 To Pro-choice. The mother is going to be carrying it so if she doesn't feel that the kid is going to have a suitable life or what ever then why let it suffer. It's just my oppinion but It'll be easier to get rid of it as a fetus than when it's actually born and get emtionally attached to it.

Edit. Missing out on a bunch of stuff but I'm on my phone. Too much effort required.
 
Oh yah, Tom makes a good point about causing harm to the mother. That's the only time that abortion really is necessary and in that case I'd have to agree with it because there's no other option, whereas if you're raped or whatever then you can still give it up for adoption etc.
 

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
LiveForTheLaunch said:
whereas if you're raped or whatever then you can still give it up for adoption etc.

Live for nine months with the reminder of what an evil bastard has done to you in one of the most horrific acts possible that leaves you alive? Then suffer a massive second pain giving birth to the child of the monstrous act just to give it away as a hated thing?

That's one of the most cruel and unpleasant punishments I can ever think of to issue out to the victim of a violent hate crime.

To be fair, you wouldn't need to worry about abortions in that case; most of the victims would probably kill themselves and the unborn child rather than suffer that, if there was no choice available.
 

nadroJ

CF Legend
Also, the giving it up for adoption case is kind of invalid. In America there are over 500,000 children in foster care. Many of these kids were taken from their parents/given up because of the lifestyle the parents were/couldn't provide for them.

So, in the opinion of Taylor, it's OK to have the kids and then just hand it over to social services and let them deal with it. Not a very fair and pleasant existence if you ask me.
 

Ben

CF Legend
Ian said:
I see abortion as another form of birth control. The only difference between abortion and a condom/coil/pill/anal sex, is nature has taken it's course and a life form is going through the creation process

Yeah, this is how I see it. I see it as on the same level of MURDER as wearing a condom or pulling out and finishing over the girl's tits. Surely if killing it in the womb a few months later is murder, so is using latex to stop the sperm and egg meeting? And therefore, every time you have sex and don't let the sperms flow freely up... whatever it is women have... then you are commiting murder. And masturbation could be termed... RECKLESS ABANDONMENT.

That is to all mean, I obviously don't see it as actually murder. Or anything bad at all. I think it should be a choice offered to anyone that so wants it. It's not a little baby sat in there, casually chilling, watching TV that's then brutally ripped out and stabbed seventeen times in the head. It's a little pile of giblets and teeth, not concious, not aware... NOT a person. It's like saying if I cut my right arm off, my right arm would then have the same rights and freedoms as I do because it's part of a person. Sort of. Ish. That's an awful analogy.

Also, this is just reason number 8495 why everyone should be gay <3
 

furie

SBOPD
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
While I consider it a form of birth control, that's different to treating it as contraception... It's one of those things where if you need to have a number of abortions in a short space of time, then you should probably be forced to get your tubes tied ;)
 

gavin

Moderator
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There's no reason for forcing someone to continue with a pregnancy they don't want, whether it's through a mistake or any other reason. That's it.

And yes, I have considered the other side of the argument; there really isn't much of one.

The legality of it, in the UK at least is 24 weeks. Ok, so I'll "agree" with the experts and say that anything after that shouldn't be allowed. By that point a person has had plenty of time to decide what to do. Any longer than that and the fetus starts to have a chance of survival outside the womb.

nealbie said:
As an aside. It is my personal opinion that the 'deadline' for abortion should be set at the earliest that premature birth has been known to successfully be undertaken and produce healthy babies.

The problem there is that the goalposts are pushed further and further away as medical technology advances, and there's no way to knowing for sure how healthy an extremely premature baby is going to be in the future.

A fetus born at 24 weeks has a 50% survival rate with medical attention, so I think it's fair if people wanted to start calling it a baby at that point. While babies have been born younger and survived, it's very, very rare and those babies are at serious risk of developing serious medical conditions.

As for the "hurting the baby" argument, general medical consensus is that the nerve connections that allow a fetus to feel pain happen at around 26 weeks. Obviously this varies with the fetus, but it wouldn't vary enough to go below 24 weeks.

Any religious argument should have absolutely no bearing on the law, in any situation including abortion.

I think we've got it about right.
 

STC

Mega Poster
I hate the term "pro-life". It implies people in favour of abortion rights are anti-life. It's a very loaded term.

Can we use pro-abortion rights and anti-abortion rights instead?
 
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