Magic Mountain vs. Cedar Point

[rwinger24]

Both parks are the coaster capitals of the world. With so many to ride, it is worth spending 2 days at one park while spending the night at a nearby hotel.

This thread will have these two go head to head in a collection of categories. Coaster Lineup, Theming, Dining, etc.

Tier rankings are highly optional as well. Former rides like the great Colossus can be included.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Purely in terms of appeal for someone who has never visited either, I'd go for Cedar Point. It seems to have a very well-rounded lineup of spectacular coasters of all types.

I've noted that SFMM has had a weird tendency to build coasters right before a paradigm shift occurred for the coaster type in question. Just years after Magic Mountain opened a headliner, there was a big design shift, some sort of tech revolution, or everyone realized that the coaster type was a bit poo and should never be built again, and the coaster is left feeling a bit obsolete, or at the very least outdated. To elaborate:

• Revolution might be the first modern coaster with a proper loop, but it didn't even take a year (heck, a week) before the corkscrew was invented, and soon after manufacturers were churning out ever more extreme and enjoyable coasters with inversions while SFMM was stuck with the prototype.
• At its debut, Flashback might have been the most advanced coaster in the world, with its revolutionary design of curves in 3D space (I once read it took a year for the 1980s computers to calculate the precise parameters of the track profile). But it was very much a prototype as well, and being a pilot project didn't save it from having a somewhat mediocre ride experience. It was already outdated when it arrived at SFMM.
• Viper was built just a few years before B&M revolutionized the sit-down looper. Viper quickly became dated with its small-diameter loops and triangular hills.
• Batman The Ride represented an innovative new ride type that would quickly become very popular ... but being early on the ball means SFMM was stuck with the prototype layout (which was eventually cloned all over the place), while B&M started experimenting with bigger, custom layouts shortly after. To date, Batman at SFMM is "just another Batman clone" while Raptor is still seen as a unique coaster (Orochi/Monster aside) and a headliner attraction. The two coasters opened within months of each other.
• Superman: The Escape was made completely obsolete by Top Thrill Dragster a few years later. Superman feels outright archaic these days, while TTD remains a headliner coaster and still gives new enthusiasts this "whoa" feeling when they discover its existence.
• Riddler's Revenge was the second-last stand-up coaster B&M ever built. It was discovered that their ride sensation was too uncomfortable to bother with, and the coaster type was left by the wayside as the world moved on.
• Goliath was Giovanola's last hurrah as a coaster manufacturer. It was completely blown out of the water by the new models from B&M and Intamin in the years to follow.
• X ... The coaster that sunk Arrow as a manufacturer. SFMM were the first park to discover what a maintenance nightmare the 4D coasters are, and the rest of the world learned quickly from that mistake.
• Green Lantern was built right before S&S made a similar coaster model to the ZacSpin that fixed all its major design issues. Now S&S Free Spins are everywhere, while ZacSpins are considered a bit of an evolutionary cul-de-sac.
• If I remember correctly, Full Throttle was the first coaster to feature a mid-course swing launch. However, it was built just before the high-speed track switch was invented, and it didn't take long for coasters like Soaring With Dragon to show how a mid-course swing launch is supposed to be.

One could also argue that Twisted Colossus left some potential unrealized because RMC was still finding its form back when it was built, but I'd rather chalk that one up to budget limitations of Six Flags. Same goes for coasters like Apocalypse or West Coast Racers. They're not of the same scope as the other big coasters at the park, but they look like decent rides and they were all SFMM could afford at the time.

Overall, SFMM has had some nice successes too, but on the whole I feel that its lineup is a bit ... outdated? Old-school? Sure, there are some must-rides there, but also a lot of "I can ride a better version of this elsewhere". And oftentimes, said "elsewhere" includes Cedar Point. There is a lot of overlap in the ride lineup of the two parks, and it usually feels like Cedar Point got the more "mature" model than SFMM.

 

[Rupert]

@Pokemaniac - just wanted to say I really appreciate your consistently well-thought-out posts on the forum, often looking through historical trends for parks, countries or manufacturers the rest of us might not have thought of, always really well-written and engaging. Even on a straightforward park v park comparison!

To address the topic: I’ve only been to Cedar Point out of the two, and if I hadn’t been to either I would still plan to go to CP first. The headline three of SV, Maverick & TTD alone are enough of a draw, let alone MF, Raptor, Gatekeeper, Valravn, Wicked Twister. It’s a ridiculous list when I write it out.

CP has some worse rides: Like many of the Arrow hypers, I think Magnum XL-200 is awful - they should all get the Phantom’s Revenge-esque Morgan treatment. Rougarou is very rough and not so enjoyable, same with Corkscrew. But for a top selection of coasters, at Cedar Point you can have eight great coasters before you get to the proper filler or bad quality.

At Magic Mountain, the real draws for me are definitely X2 and Tatsu for their scale and uniqueness. I bet Twisted Colossus is great but it doesn’t look to have anywhere near the speed and out-of-control feeling that SV has - I found Wicked Twister to be fairly middle-of-the-road for this reason. Coasters like Full Throttle, Goliath, Scream, Batman, Riddler’s Revenge, Apocalypse - I’m sure they’re good but they don’t grab me in the same way, and a few are clones or variations on clones. Will the older B&Ms have the classic roughness that sets in? Will Viper make me want to set myself on fire? Will I find Tatsu’s pretzel roll too much (based on the intensity of the Superman pretzel experience)?

I’d bloody love to go to Magic Mountain but also can’t imagine it to be the better park than Cedar Point.

 

[Hixee]

I can answer this one in two words - The Point.

Not even a shadow of a doubt.

I quite liked SFMM on my couple of visits. I think X2 is great, Tatsu is one of the best of it's kind, Goliath and Riddler are kinda fab, and they've got some good old-school coasters too. It's got a decent setting up on the hill, and benefits from the great Six Flags season pass. Haven't been since before Full Throttle, so would be interested to go back and see their lineup now.

Cedar Point just knocks it out of the park, though. The big four of SteVe, Dragster, Millennium Force and Maverick already push it ahead (probably), but followed up with Magnum, Valravn, Gatekeeper, Wicked Twister, Raptor and Gemini means it wins for me. It's location is stunning, that drive up the causeway is an emotional affair even on repeat visits, and I think the atmosphere of the park is generally pretty decent.

For context - CP is my #2 park, and SFMM is my #6 - that's not bad going by either, frankly.

 

[rideguy70]

Purely in terms of appeal for someone who has never visited either, I'd go for Cedar Point. It seems to have a very well-rounded lineup of spectacular coasters of all types.

I've noted that SFMM has had a weird tendency to build coasters right before a paradigm shift occurred for the coaster type in question. Just years after Magic Mountain opened a headliner, there was a big design shift, some sort of tech revolution, or everyone realized that the coaster type was a bit poo and should never be built again, and the coaster is left feeling a bit obsolete, or at the very least outdated. To elaborate:

• Revolution might be the first modern coaster with a proper loop, but it didn't even take a year (heck, a week) before the corkscrew was invented, and soon after manufacturers were churning out ever more extreme and enjoyable coasters with inversions while SFMM was stuck with the prototype.
• At its debut, Flashback might have been the most advanced coaster in the world, with its revolutionary design of curves in 3D space (I once read it took a year for the 1980s computers to calculate the precise parameters of the track profile). But it was very much a prototype as well, and being a pilot project didn't save it from having a somewhat mediocre ride experience. It was already outdated when it arrived at SFMM.
• Viper was built just a few years before B&M revolutionized the sit-down looper. Viper quickly became dated with its small-diameter loops and triangular hills.
• Batman The Ride represented an innovative new ride type that would quickly become very popular ... but being early on the ball means SFMM was stuck with the prototype layout (which was eventually cloned all over the place), while B&M started experimenting with bigger, custom layouts shortly after. To date, Batman at SFMM is "just another Batman clone" while Raptor is still seen as a unique coaster (Orochi/Monster aside) and a headliner attraction. The two coasters opened within months of each other.
• Superman: The Escape was made completely obsolete by Top Thrill Dragster a few years later. Superman feels outright archaic these days, while TTD remains a headliner coaster and still gives new enthusiasts this "whoa" feeling when they discover its existence.
• Riddler's Revenge was the second-last stand-up coaster B&M ever built. It was discovered that their ride sensation was too uncomfortable to bother with, and the coaster type was left by the wayside as the world moved on.
• Goliath was Giovanola's last hurrah as a coaster manufacturer. It was completely blown out of the water by the new models from B&M and Intamin in the years to follow.
• X ... The coaster that sunk Arrow as a manufacturer. SFMM were the first park to discover what a maintenance nightmare the 4D coasters are, and the rest of the world learned quickly from that mistake.
• Green Lantern was built right before S&S made a similar coaster model to the ZacSpin that fixed all its major design issues. Now S&S Free Spins are everywhere, while ZacSpins are considered a bit of an evolutionary cul-de-sac.
• If I remember correctly, Full Throttle was the first coaster to feature a mid-course swing launch. However, it was built just before the high-speed track switch was invented, and it didn't take long for coasters like Soaring With Dragon to show how a mid-course swing launch is supposed to be.

These are some good and fair points. But some clarifications:

• Flashback didn't originate at SFMM... it started at SFGA, moved to SFOG, and ended up at SFMM as part of the coaster rotation program
• I'm pretty sure Batman also originated at SFGA, not SFMM
• While Superman isn't nearly as intense as TTD, it does go backwards, and is still a lot of fun, even if it isn't super intnese
• Green Lantern has been gone for a year now
• Revolution may have been outdone by the popularity of the corkscrew, but look at the layout of the first corkscrew rides vs. Revolution. Revolution is a much longer ride, where the loop is just the bonus. And while not super extreme by today's standards, it does still hold it's own as a very enjoyable coaster, largely due to it's smoothness and relatively long layout. I was just at the park last week, and it's still getting huge lines, while I can't say that corkscrews do
• Bigger doesn't always equal better. While Raptor may be larger and faster, I personally think Batman is still better and a more intense experience. Those small and tight layouts can create a strong forces. In fact, I really wish B&M would return to small and compact layouts again. Some of their large coasters, while enjoyable, don't really have much force or intensity.

And while I do want to try to defend SFMM a bit (it is one of my homeparks), even I can't deny that as an overall park, Cedar Point is superior. Much better themed, generally much better run, and has more variety in it's flat rides (SFMM literally has 6 flat rides total, excluding kiddie rides--and with the exception of Crazanity and Drop of Doom, they're all from the 70's or 80's).

But purely on a coaster basis, while some of the rides may be a bit outdated, it's still a good variety with many unique coasters... so on coaster line up alone, it's much closer to the Cedar Point coasters. I'd still give it to CP, but by a closer margin.

 

[Hyde]

I'd argue the two parks were much closer to one another during the Coaster Wars of 2000, going blow for blow on "most roller coasters" and "tallest, fastest, etc." And to be fair as far as cred runs go - SFMM gets the advantage of having A LOT of banger roller coasters packed in. (Checking my average rankings-per-roller-coaster in each park, SFMM leads CP 72 to 89)

Most roller coasters in the world, an amusement park does not make however.

Cedar Point simply has ambience that's very hard to match, a picturesque peninsula on Lake Erie. And beyond the COASTERZ, there is a simply better tourism experience across the region, versus Valencia; as a quick stop on your way to LA or Bakersfield.