"Just a coaster" vs an entire experience

[andrus]

Ok I admit the title is a bit odd, but I couldn't come up with anything better to describe this. I was watching the TV show "Engineering Thrills" where they were doing some research to find out why people enjoy roller coasters. Then " the scientist guy" said at the end of a run on Fahrenheit that the engineers missed out on the opportunity to have some music playing. He said that when you hit the break run and your heart rate is still up it would be easy to just play any kind of music to enhance the pleasure. Here's the clip (start watching at 6:39):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCHg9Gpo7e4[/youtube]

This is something I've wondered a long time; why doesn't parks think of roller coasters as an experience rather than just plonk a coaster in their park? It struk me especially in the US where it was very rare that they even played music in the station. To just have some music playing in the station and at the brake run would grately enhance the the ride experience! Not just because it's nice with some music but because it enhance the feeling of fear/joy building up tension in the station and giving a reward as you finish the ride at the break run.

Black Mamba, which is a personal favourite of mine, does that very well so I'll use it as an example: When you enter the area and queueline you can see all the amazing theming, it's almost like you're in an exotic African country rather than a theme park. Then you enter the mystical cave-like station. When the train take off they dampen the light and African bongo music starts playing. You then enter the lift hill where the top is enclosed and more music plays to get you started before the first drop. Then the train travels through the terrain: almost crash against walls before the train whip you round a flat spin last second, or go through fast helixes inches from the surrounding walls! The rides ends with a right hand turn into a cave and complete darkness. As soon as you hit the brakes the bongo music starts to play yet again to keep your heart rate and pleasure levels up. Here's a video if you haven't been on the ride:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku4vOAgwEBM[/youtube]

I belive that Black Mamba would be a fairly average coaster if just plonked on a bit of land Six Flags or Cedar Fair style. But with all the amazing features mentioned above it turns into one of the absolute best coasters in the world imho!

Ok, so Blak Mamba cost a huge amount of money. But you don't need to spend a fortune on theming and underground stations etc. There's plenty of cheap things that can be done to enhance the ride sensation like station music, music at the brake run, ride interaction with the surroundings and a good ending to the coaster. The ending is eg what makes the difference between my two favourite inverts Black Mamba and Katun. While Katun slowly crawls into the brakes where you have to wait in five minutes Black Mamba finishes with a fast turn into complete darkness and some music. The coasters have equally good layouts imo but while Katun leaves you with a dull ending Black Mamba has a "omg what an amazing ride"-ending, and that's what makes the difference for me!

I thought that parks hired professional architects/designers when adding new coaster? But apparently most parks don't since they just plonk the rides and don't care for the details. Those so important details that imo can make or brake a coaster! I don't know what to make of this, maybe I'm just a bit dissapointed with the industry as a whole and want a change? I want parks to design an enitre ride experience rather than just plonk down a new coaster! Feel free to discuss!

Sorry for long post, thanks for reading etc!

 

[CoasterfanSWE]

I think theming both the queue and around the coaster/station adds to the experience quite a bit and this is what the parks I've visited lacks on almost ALL their rides. Zero and no theming on the queue and just the mainstream pop radio channel playing in the station. Quite a let down when even just a little bit of queue/station theming and a specially composed track would add to the experience.

There are many components to make a ride an experience. And the few rides I've ridden with theming is just that, an experience, instead of just "standing in a dull concrete line and then ride a coaster/ride".

 

[Youngster Joey]

"Just a coaster" vs an entire experience

Theming can make an average ride good or a good ride great. It helps but other than Disney/Universal and Verboltens's que I don't really see very much. Six flags and cedar fair parks tend to lack I'm theming (at least the ones I've been to)

 

[Snoo]

Of course, spraying perfume on a piece of **** doesn't make it any better.

 

[Hyde]

It's a give and take.

Theming can add to a roller coaster, but it is never necessary for a good roller coaster. Likewise, good roller coasters are not required to have theming.

Just look at my Top 10; majority of these coasters do not have any true theming. Even then, the theming does not extend much beyond in-station theme songs or sparse theming.

As long as the ride experience is well placed, theming is negligible. Some coasters, such as Expedition Everest, obviously require it. Top Thrill Dragster on the other hand pulls off a fantastic experience with a minimal theme.

 

[ATTACKHAMMER]

Theming when good can turn a coaster into an experience. Like Space Mountain the queue is themed superbly, the whole building makes the experience. Like said above Expedition Everest relie on theming with the robo yeti.
Both these rides are high in my top ten because they are experiences not just rides.

 

[gavin]

mainstream pop radio channel playing in the station.

This is a personal pet hate of mine. It's fine for a funfair or a small park, but when major parks (I'm looking at you Six Flags and Cedar Fair) have mainly generic pop music blaring out over the park and in the ride stations, it annoys the hell out of me. No, it doesn't spoil a coaster - a good ride is a good ride - but I find it lazy and thoughtless on the part of the parks.

 

[nadroJ]

^And Thorpe do it too. Instead of the Thorpe entrance music/bridge music you're greeted by Rhianna. Great.

I think in the end it all comes down to cost. For Six Flags, for example, to build something to the experience scale of Black Mamba would be a massive dent in their savings, and in the end the public will still ride it regardless. Yes they're more likely to come off of Black Mamba going oh my god what an amazing ride experience but I've heard similar remarks about things like Scream! at SFMM, which I found incredibly bland. It's whether the general public would appreciate it and, in America particularly, I just don't think people would.

Also there's the branding thing and what people expect from it. So, from Disney you expect a totally immersive ride that provides you both a thrilling and outstanding experience, from somewhere like Busch you expect the rides to look nice but not as good as Disney and at Six Flags/ Cedar Fair you expect the bare minimum of effort put in. Sad, but I think if parks such as SF/CF were EXPECTED to produce something of a higher quality then they'd put more effort in, but they're not, so they don't.

 

[Kebab]

I think theming (or scenery) holds the divide between a fantastic coaster and a 'masterpiece'. But then again it's all down to personal taste e.g. some people like Pop-music, whereas others like Progressive Rock. I just find that a little bit extra aesthetics (including music, atmosphere etc.) makes an experience much more memorable and generally something I want to go back to moreso in the future.

Take Stealth in comparison to Saw: The Ride, I find Stealth a very rewarding coaster, but other than that it's nothing special. Saw: The Ride on the other hand, even though the coaster isn't great, stands out a lot more than Stealth does to me when I visit the park, and thats because I find the indoor section unique for a coaster of this calibre in the UK. I still get the same buzz departing the station towards the dark drop as I did the first time I rode it, I love it.

But as I said above it's all down to personal taste.

 

[dominoes]

Depends how good the coaster is.
Great coaster = Well, maybe a carpark is fine.
Fine coaster = Scenery really improves it.
Bad coaster = You can't polish a turd.

 

[Youngster Joey]

"Just a coaster" vs an entire experience

Depends how good the coaster is.
Great coaster = Well, maybe a carpark is fine.
Fine coaster = Scenery really improves it.
Bad coaster = You can't polish a turd.

Actually you can polish poop. Mythbusters did it.

But other than that I think you nailed it

 

[dominoes]

^ Fine, you can polish a turd, but it still wont be a good coaster.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I think you can polish a turd when it comes to coasters. Saw is a good example. I find myself, despite not liking the ride, continually giving it a chance because I want to get into the beautiful station. I instantly regret it, but the theming has by then served it's purpose, surely?

Theming comes in and out of fashion, and along with that it's effected by the economic climate. It's grown over recent years in the same way Disneyland evolved out of the ashes of the depression. Extra efforts have to be made to get someone to care about your product when they haven't got much money to spend, and you have to fight hard with competitors. And theming is one way to set your product apart from someone elses.

I think there's a lot more to creating an experience than "theming" though. There's a lot more to attraction design than most companies give the time and money for. One thing I noticed on this recent trip to the states was how awful almost ALL the exit paths were out there. They were all RCT style afterthoughts. No consideration for how guests would feel or behave when exiting the ride at all. No thought for the fact that when you finally get down that ramp, you've forgotten all about the damn ride you just got off. It's things like this which rage me more than a lack of scenery, and yet things like this should be all encompassing within "attraction design". There should be no defiant line between hardware, theme and usability. Outside of Disney though, you just don't get that level of care. Or, well, rarely anyway.

I think it was Tim who told me about Wardley's attention to detail when it comes to this kind of thing, in particular his care for bringing guests into a station from the queue in such a way as to show them the loading procedure. The intention being if they see how it works, they naturally prepare themselves. At the time, before rules changed and things were updated, Wardley's original creations at Chessington are some of the best considered designs around. Bubblework's station, in particular, is the kind of "common sense" you just don't see very often. Guests pass over the station to board on the far side when they queue, making the queue interesting and allowing them to see the boarding, and they get off the ride and go straight out. No faff, no bridges to cross, no clusters, no winding pathways.

Examples like Black Mamba confuse all my instincts. WHY is it so heavily themed? What purpose does that really serve? And, practically, it's a disaster... With that tiny station and **** area around it. Aside entertaining guests whilst they wait in line and being so jaw-droppingly awesome it makes you question why the hell they bothered, what IS the point? Honestly? I'm delighted it exists, but WHY? I just don't know. Here's the thing, if Black Mamba wasn't themed, would it bring in less money? Probably. But as much less as it cost to theme it? I... I just don't believe that.

 

[andrus]

Take Stealth in comparison to Saw: The Ride, I find Stealth a very rewarding coaster, but other than that it's nothing special.

I think though that Stealth is a great example of how you with small means can make an attraction great. The theming is sparse yet does it's job very well: the old van, the music and the trains make you feel that you're in a 60's racetrack, the fading colour scheme of the top hat makes it look a lot higher than it is and I really love the detail with the engine sound and smoke machine simulating burnt tires at the launch!

Examples like Black Mamba confuse all my instincts. WHY is it so heavily themed? What purpose does that really serve? And, practically, it's a disaster... With that tiny station and **** area around it. Aside entertaining guests whilst they wait in line and being so jaw-droppingly awesome it makes you question why the hell they bothered, what IS the point? Honestly? I'm delighted it exists, but WHY? I just don't know. Here's the thing, if Black Mamba wasn't themed, would it bring in less money? Probably. But as much less as it cost to theme it? I... I just don't believe that.

I think that's a general "problem" with all of Phantasialand; it's a bit over themed. Like eg with Black Mamba they probably could've settled with a lot less of objects (they've imported tons of authentic stuff from Africa!) and still get the same impressive result! If you do take the time to look it's an amazing job they've put in to it, but I really don't think the majority of people do that and I certainly don't think they bother if it's authentic stuff or a cheap replica.. And calling it a "disaster" is pretty harsh and a very personal opinion :wink: A lot of CF:ers rate it very high and it's currently ranked #28 in the Mitch Hawker poll, above coasters like X2, Tatsu and Alpengeist to name e few.

I think there's a lot more to creating an experience than "theming" though...I think it was Tim who told me about Wardley's attention to detail when it comes to this kind of thing, in particular his care for bringing guests into a station from the queue in such a way as to show them the loading procedure. The intention being if they see how it works, they naturally prepare themselves. At the time, before rules changed and things were updated, Wardley's original creations at Chessington are some of the best considered designs around. Bubblework's station, in particular, is the kind of "common sense" you just don't see very often. Guests pass over the station to board on the far side when they queue, making the queue interesting and allowing them to see the boarding, and they get off the ride and go straight out. No faff, no bridges to cross, no clusters, no winding pathways.

I think this has turned into more of a theming discussion than was my initial intention! Just as you state there's a lot more to a ride design and theming. The example with John Wardly and Bubblework is a brilliant one! I just don't get why more companies don't take the time and bother with details like this to "complete" their attractions..

 

[metalhead7]

Theming and music definitely enhance the ride experience. I would go a step further and say that parks should also work on making lifts more suspenseful. Even a little thing saying how high you are climbing can make it that much more suspenseful.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Examples like Black Mamba confuse all my instincts. WHY is it so heavily themed? What purpose does that really serve? And, practically, it's a disaster... With that tiny station and **** area around it. Aside entertaining guests whilst they wait in line and being so jaw-droppingly awesome it makes you question why the hell they bothered, what IS the point? Honestly? I'm delighted it exists, but WHY? I just don't know. Here's the thing, if Black Mamba wasn't themed, would it bring in less money? Probably. But as much less as it cost to theme it? I... I just don't believe that.

I think that's a general "problem" with all of Phantasialand; it's a bit over themed. Like eg with Black Mamba they probably could've settled with a lot less of objects (they've imported tons of authentic stuff from Africa!) and still get the same impressive result! If you do take the time to look it's an amazing job they've put in to it, but I really don't think the majority of people do that and I certainly don't think they bother if it's authentic stuff or a cheap replica.. And calling it a "disaster" is pretty harsh and a very personal opinion :wink: A lot of CF:ers rate it very high and it's currently ranked #28 in the Mitch Hawker poll, above coasters like X2, Tatsu and Alpengeist to name e few.

By disaster I only meant the layout of pathways and the lacking consideration of crowd mentality. You could argue that Phantasiland doesn't have a lot of space, but that's all the more reason to work in such a way to limit such difficulties. The pathways around Black Mamba in particular confusing, small and the station with the back 3 rows confined to one loading bay is truly ridiculous.

I love how enclosed Phantasiland feels, I love how immersive it is... And how unusual that experience at a theme park is, but I bet crowding there is a really serious problem. With guests unable to see over structures to get a sense of space, they rely entirely on either knowing or using the map. And the map isn't brilliant design, either.

In short, the creatives responsible for much of that park were able to run a little too wild and free. The result is so unusual and interesting that I let it off, because it IS awesome, but it just makes me wonder if anyone was even thinking about how their guests would move through the park at the time when they designed it.

 

[Thekingin64]

To back up what Joey was just saying, when I went I couldn't find my way around. Had to skip most rides due to this.

Great Park though and agree about the over themeing.

 

[gavin]

I would go a step further and say that parks should also work on making lifts more suspenseful. Even a little thing saying how high you are climbing can make it that much more suspenseful.

Fujiyama does this, and it actually is quite effective. They've got signs on the lift hill every time to hit another 10 metres in height. This was obviously done back when it was the world's tallest (there was/is an extra large sign as soon as you hit the world record height) and would have been more effective back then, but still a nice touch that was simple and cheap for the park to implement.

 

[Thekingin64]

^They've got that on the Big One as well. I just use it as info on how high I am and for scaring my mum.