If Phantasialand got its desired expansion...

[Fluorineer]

...what would they actually do with it? I hope, a speculation-thread like this is welcome in this forum and also I also submitted it in the correct place. If not, bear with me.

One thing that I can't really wrap my head around is, how would they be able to continue with their recognizable Phantasialand-style if they happened to double their usable space over night? Considering how the extreme immersiveness, enclosedness and continuity throughout the park basically has become their panacea for creating an outstanding experience for their guests. You can totally see how this tiny space has grown over a period of 30 years and on top of that has significantly picked up the pace in the past 10 years in terms of theming. Do you think, they would be able to continue their style like that if they happened to start something new from ground up, which would even be on the other side of the street, meaning they would have to give up their extremely fluent transitions between the themes?

Also, do you think that Phantasialand will be limited in ride choices due to their high standards of theming and if so, how and why do you see these? I for instance could perfectly imagine them getting a GCI-Woody (or heck, even jump on Gravity Group's innovation train and do something crazy, it's Phantasialand) or a water coaster, those are just two roller coasters that would fit perfectly into their line-up and also would allow for insanely great theming. And both of these rides would be large enough to "carry" an entire area, which would be required as they are probably going to get a multitude of new areas in that big of a space. A ride that would also fit their line-up but that I totally couldn't see though is a Hypercoaster. Not only thanks to the locals (hey guys, might want to take a trip to Rust, it's actually possible to work with your local park TOGETHER) but also because that's just something that would stick out as a standalone ride without it's theming, and also not even really allowing for immersive theming. However, an Intamin Mega-Lite would also be sweet. Why the heck aren't more parks building these things? Oh well...

Next question would be the kinds of themes you would love to see in a Phantasialand-expansion. What comes to mind are a couple of themes that are generally very popular, but usually are not being done great on most occasions. Perfect example is the dystopian theme, which is usually just an excuse for having a bunch of scrap and junk laying around, so that you can say "hey, that is the theming". Raptor at Gardaland has probably the best dystopian theme that I have experienced in person, and even though it's done quite well, it still smells Merlin from miles away. I think if there's one park who could actually do that kind of theme perfectly, it's Phantasialand. Especially if they go with an unusual choice and don't pick the obligatory B&M for such an area, but instead something like a Woody. How ironic would that be, a theme that hasn't been done great like ever, combined with a coaster type that most people consider to be "not requiring any theming".

Only problem could be, if they actually manage to pull of a great dystopian area, it might turn out to be so well done, that's it's more uncomfortable than anything. Might be a reason why they went with friendly themes by now

What I actually can't see anymore is them building a water park, mainly because the Aqualand Köln is skyrocketing and will continue to do so in the future. This is precisely, why socialism failed: during the time it takes the local politicians to make a single ****ing decision, the private sector pulls the largest waterpark in the entire country out of its ass.

They'd also have that pretty large lake in the middle of that area, and considering the whole reason why this is taking so long is that the Ententeich is a natural reserve (because you know, killing fish with a hook in their mouths and saying that is protecting the environment is million times better than building an amusement park and creating a proper compensation area where douchebags can't cast their fishing rods), they'll probably be forced to keep it and not even do a lot to that, similar to what happened with Wakobato (what a waste of money and space). To make up for that, maybe they'd go for an aquatic theme. You know, nice and abstract, just as Mystery and Fantasy, could totally fit their style and is also a theme that is generally done terrible, if done at all. And they need another water ride anyway, River Quest's height requirement is a real killer in their line up. Mack's watercoasters and Super Splashs with the new restraint systems only require a height of 1,00m, so that could be exactly what they are looking for, especially because these things are no joke. Poseidon is one of the largest crowd pullers of all Germany and that is an old ride which would be done so much better these days.

So yeah, what do you guys think about this? If this is ever going to happen (which is worth another discussion in itself), what would you like to see, what do you believe would they actually do, and how would it change Phantasialand and it's overall experience?

 

[Phantasiastisch]

I'm sure a new area on the current Berlin car park wouldn't affect Phantasialand's immersive theming.

The Berggeiststraße is higher than the park so they easily can make a tunnel underneath. They'll just demolish the main entrance which would be moved to the other side of the Berlin area, behind the Kaizerplatz next to the Klugheim plantwall. My expectations are that a new main entrance on that side will be a pass-through under a Berlin and Partially Klugheim themed hotel above the entrance like the Disney hotel in Disneyland Paris.

Back to the other side, the old main entrance and the side with the path/bridge to Deep in Africa will be replaced with Berlin buildings to make the area completed. Under the building on the current entrance will be a pass-through to the new area.

Phantasialand are choosing for coasters and attractions which fit into the environment and which do not disturb the skyline of the park. Wherever you see, you should only see theming and no metal structures. That's how they probably think.

So I'm not expecting a wooden coaster like Troy in Toverland or Wodan in Europa-Park. It's difficult to make a low to the ground wooden coaster with immersive theming. But if one park could make this happen, then it's Phantasialand so my hope for it isn't lost yet. A launched B&M wingcoaster like for example Thunderbird could fit the park. That's a coaster which could still be themed well if it's low to the ground and with tunnels etc.

A dystopian theme? No thanks.

I wouldn't say a waterpark is never going to be built anymore because of Aqualand which keeps expanding. I would rather go to a beautiful themed waterpark created by Phantasialand then going to Aqualand. Watch Plopsaqua de Panne in Belgium on the picture below.



That's a waterpark I prefer above all other waterparks. And next year Europa-Park is opening Rulantica, also a completely themed waterpark. Why? Because people expect more than only a a few slides and a square pool in white tiles. Haha.

I've been thinking about something which probability also came in mind to Phantasialand.

I would move the Moon Lake with Wakobato to that new lake in that nature reserve and expand the fantasy area there. I would make a tunnel between the Wuze Town building and the Temple of the Nighthawk building which then is already being demolished and replaced with something else.

I would see it like "Hey, neighbors and politicians, we give the current lake back and remove the pathway which is going around it, then the guests are not that close to you anymore. But as a compensation, we want the other lake and just put the Wakobato attraction over there so we don't ruin anything and the lake keeps existing." Everyone happy! A Poseidon watercoaster on that new lake if it would be allowed, would be very cool.

But one thing I'm sure of is that Phantasialand will stick to this way of building and theming stuff without wasting a lot of space. That's Phantasialand's characteristic.

 

[Pink Cadillac]

Even though it shares its similarities with Steampunk, i'd like to see Phantasialand try Cyberpunk (maybe in an indoor area), I think the compact/jam-packed style phantasialand do so well would work well for that particular theme.

 

[toofpikk]

I think crazycoasterguy's terra park is a pretty good idea of some themes the park could explore that would be interesting. I'd love to see an ancient classic theme pulled off by the park, in relation to pompeii/athens style.

(hey guys, might want to take a trip to Rust, it's actually possible to work with your local park TOGETHER)

europas quite an awkward example to use in this situation, because..
it shouldnt be used as an example :/
Rust is in the middle of nowhere and the town was miniscule/nonexistent before the park came along. im fairly sure the majority of the inhabitants are workers at the park, and the rest own businesses/bnbs that thrive off staying guests. If they did not get along with the park, they wouldnt be there. The mack fmaily completely dominate that area (im fairly sure last year they asked the council to ban the construction of anymore hotels until the water park was made, whether this was to do with business or other, im unsure but still, it's a point).
This is, in a lot of ways, quite an opposite position to phantasia.

Whatever phantasia have planned, I have no doubt it'll be stunning. If there were ever to be another aquatrax, I'd want this park to have it.

 

[Phantasiastisch]

I was thinking about something that popped up in my mind and I wanted to share it, even if it's not that important and it's not about an expansion.

Once the new entrance with bridge of River Quest is finished and in use, what about the current queueline?
It's almost underneath the whole building it's kind of a plaza so I guess Phantasialand is planning on doing something with that area.

But what? Any ideas?
Food stalls where the red curtain is?
(I looked behind it and there's nothing, it's an empty room.)


It's quite a big area...

 

[chainedbanana]

There are some ideas from Phantasia's 'Never built rumours' that would still work for the park, One was an African version of Indiana-jones jeep ride/dark ride - which would just need space - and hidden in a lowish-lying show building!

Another idea is a mummy style dark-ride-coaster - again doesn't need great hight

I could also see phantasialand investing in a new trackless dark ride along the lines of symbolica, or indeed a robot-arm dark ride like HPFJ @ universal!

 

[Pear]

Wuze Ball confirmed

 

[Phantasiastisch]

There are some ideas from Phantasia's 'Never built rumours' that would still work for the park, One was an African version of Indiana-jones jeep ride/dark ride - which would just need space - and hidden in a lowish-lying show building!

Another idea is a mummy style dark-ride-coaster - again doesn't need great hight

I could also see phantasialand investing in a new trackless dark ride along the lines of symbolica, or indeed a robot-arm dark ride like HPFJ @ universal!

I also have been thinking about a African darkride. Two possibilities to make this happen:

Blue: When they don't need the tunnel underneath the park anymore (in my vision the main entrance will be moved to the other side of the Berlin area when they expand the Mystery parking lot and they get their own direct access way to the highway) , then they can make a multilayer darkride over there.

Red: Demolishing or transforming The Musarteum Wintergarden show building and replacing it with a big darkride.

 

[CSLKennyNI]

Comparing PHL's situation to Europa's doesn't work for the reasons toofpikk outlined. Bruhl has been a large town for a long time before Phantasialand while Rust has only really developed because of Europa. While Bruhl massively benefits from the park it is not solely dependent on it.

The park's locals problem comes from nearby residents who lived there before the park existed and complain about the visual impact, the noise and increase in traffic. Therefore the park have strict height and sound limitations + Wakobato was neutered and cannot run on Sundays, and the Klettergarten behind it was closed and abandoned.

The Mystery and China car parks are privately owned and attempts to purchase this land have failed as the owners' asking price is too high. Therefore the only other option is the forest opposite the Berlin entrance which is owned by the government.
However this plan is opposed by the environmentalists who campaign against the removal of the trees and lake, the fisherman who fish there and the Green Party.

The original expansion plan which would have used up more space, and featured a massive wooden coaster in furthest corner of the forest (marked in red as rasante Fahrattraktion) among other attractions and resort offerings - all connected by a monorail, was rejected around 2008. The park reworked and proposed a smaller expansion using only the triangle of forest there in 2012. As far as we know this plan is still what the park intends to do with the land: A water park with a third themed hotel, a large theatre and a massive multi-storey car park.

Phantasialand's owner Robert Loffelhardt spoke about the park's master plan in an interview with Parkworld Magazine in 2014 at the opening of Chiapas.

"The most important thing is to bring the park to a higher level, so that all of the rides are modern 'e-ticket' attractions,' muses Loffelhardt. "That is the first step, but we also want to go for more hotels and evening entertainment, because business events are important to us when the park is closed. And then I think we go the next step and open the park for the whole year, but for that we need a second concept, and I think that will be a nice waterpark. We have been working on getting the extra land for the last 10 years, but I think this year we will get it".

Of course as we all know they did not "get it" in 2014 and the park is still trying to get the new land.

The second gate water park is seen as essential to make the park a resort encourage more visitors and longer stays in the resort, and to having the park open all year round like Efteling and the Disney parks. The two hotels the park currently have are really popular and often fully booked so the fact they want a third is understandable.
Having a massive theatre/concert venue would certainly boost profits running shows and hosting concerts, attracting external guests and adding to the evening resort entertainment offering. And having a proper large theatre to run their own shows as well, is a long held wish of Robert Loffelhardt's wife who is the show director in Phantasialand - in fact she recently again spoke about this in an interview.
Building their own 2.5 ha multi-storey car park - this is an interesting one. The park last year built beside the China car park their own parking spaces for buses and coaches (which as covered in the PHL expansion thread caused some issues...). However this proposed massive car park could make them almost or entirely self dependent - they would no longer need to rely on the China and Mystery lots. Plus they'd actually make money off car parking for once.

And this is now going into speculation territory on what the park's game plan might be; but if the China and Mystery car parks become obsolete their owners might be more willing to sell them for a more reasonable price. And with the extra income the park would have from the water park, hotel, car parking and theatre if might be more affordable for Phantasialand to buy them. Then Phantasialand could expand the park behind Mystery and China continuing to build more themed areas behind Mystery and China however just like Klugheim they would need to be sound proofed and not too high.
However I would worry that this would be a gamble because what if the car park owners are stubborn and still refuse to sell? Then PHL has a serious issue with regards to the theme park.

So while it would be interesting to see the theme park expand into the forest opposite Berlin perhaps using the natural landscape and forest and building a larger/louder coaster such as B&M Wing, or as the park had previously hoped for a Wooden Coaster of some sort (side note: Could you imagine a Phantasia RMC? That would certainly round out their coaster collection. It'll never happen but I can dream right?) - I think they will stick to the resort expansion plan. If all goes well they would massively boost their numbers and income (given how they spend more than any other European park except Disney on new attractions they could certainly use that extra income to help fund things and give future additions even higher budgets), and possibly led to a much needed later expansion of the theme park itself - as they will eventually run out of space. The major issue facing them is what if the park runs out of space before they get this expansion...

 

[peep]

That's an amazing breakdown, thanks @CSLKennyNI

I really hope they get to expand on that forest to build the waterpark/hotel/car park. In a dream world the use of their own car park with funds going straight to the park would make the current car park land a bit worthless and will then allow Phantasialand to buy up that land for future attraction expansion further down the line.

I can't see the park taking out the Musarteum Wintergarden show building and even if they did I'm not sure it'd leave a good enough space for a dark ride?