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Gay Parenting

Mark

Strata Poster
I have no doubt that some will do the 'eurgh... gays' roll the eyes thing but nevertheless I wanted to post this and see what you lot thought. As a couple of you know I attempt to write a blog about 'gay' life from my own perspective and this is basically my latest piece...

Singer Will Young has recently revealed that he yearns to be a father and it has reminded me of a debate I had some time ago and my own conflicted opinions on the subject.

For many years growing up, long before I came out, one of the things I really wanted in life was to be a dad. Don’t ask me what made me want it, I just did. Since coming out, that feeling has dissipated and I now feel the complete opposite. Call me selfish but I love my life the way it is and I am not sure that I could genuinely devote that kind of time to a child. It is hard enough keeping on top of things as it is, without taking on a responsibility that is bigger than any full time job out there. At least I am honest in admitting my own flaw I suppose.

However, it runs deeper than that. Along with coming out, there was a lot of growing up; a lot of time for thought. Part of coming out includes considering the aspects of your life that will change, whether you want them to or not. Of course, we all try to carry on and not let it be the most important part of our own personality, but there is an element of change involved that cannot be ignored.

Considering the fact that I always wanted to be a dad you can imagine what one of those elements of change was going to be, for many reasons. At the time, being a dad became an impossibility the very moment I admitted to myself that I was gay. Back then gay marriage was still a topic of heated discussion, let alone the idea of gay adoption. I just accepted that being gay meant I was not going to be a dad and that it went with the territory so to speak. That doesn’t mean that the notion has not been revisited since. Every so often I would think about it and contemplate the possibilities only to realise that I was even more against the idea.

One major factor in my thoughts was my own childhood. In my early teens I suffered some bullying. It was all the usual things and in adulthood I realise that children can be very cruel. Some children are very good at pinpointing something as ammunition to exact their cruelty. It goes without saying that sending a child off to school as ‘the kid with gay dads’ would serve as perfect ammunition for a bully. Of course, as I have accepted, bullies will always find something that they can use against another, whether it be gay dads or not. However, I’ll be totally honest and say that I do not feel comfortable with the notion of sending a child into the world to suffer anything like the same bullying I felt. They may be bullied for any number of reasons but I certainly don’t want to add to those reasons and essentially hand the bullies ammunition on a plate. Unfortunately, I don’t think we have come quite far enough for the concept of gay parents to be acceptable. So again, I have convinced myself that children are not for me. Again, this is could be construed as being selfish. I certainly appear to be more concerned about avoiding my own guilt but if that is the case, then so be it.

This is not to say that I disagree with gay parenting though. I cannot make that clearer. A stronger person than me could face those challenges head on and win. I admit that I don’t think I can. I am totally pro gay parenting for those who want to. There are so many out there who are opposed to gay parenting and have their reasons, none of which really seem to hold any water.

"Every child should have a mother figure AND a father figure!"

This is always the fall back argument I would say. I hear it so often and it is such an easy statement to make but how true is it? How many children are out there who only have a mother OR a father, whether it be because of a failed relationship or worse, because one has passed away. Surely, in that situation, the child is lacking the mother or father figure they need for growing up; especially if the single parent does not enter another relationship. If a child MUST have a mother and father figure then I would also argue that our society is in serious trouble. In 2005 it was very publicly reported in the media that the number of lone parent families had soared to 1.88 million. It will certainly be interesting to see where that statistic stands after the most recent census results are revealed. Either way, that is a large chunk of the population that are lacking the apparently essential mother and father figure. Therefore, personally I feel that the argument is well and truly redundant. Yet, when you point this out it can still cause another thread or lifeline to anyone against gay adoption. The response being that, ‘at least the child will know who his father or mother was’ or more to the point that, ‘they came from a mother and a father’. Well, to be fair and with only a hint of sarcasm, I think it would be incredibly difficult to hide that rather obvious fact of life wouldn’t it? A gay couple are equally capable of ensuring that the child is aware of where they come from and how they got here. It is a rather unavoidable truth wouldn’t you say?

This whole argument is made under the assumption that only a straight couple can nourish the child with all of the relevant life skills, support and role models that are apparently required to lead to the child being a ’well rounded’ adult. Even then I would contest the truth in that little pearl of wisdom as the last time I heard the news, there are countless numbers of parents out there who clearly did not give their children the capacity to be a well rounded adult. That is without even looking at the parents that abuse their children. Unless the NSPCC are exaggerating and making up these stories, beating your own child is hardly the way to go about raising a child. Yet apparently it is still better that a ‘heterosexual’ couple should raise a child? Granted, the same abuse could happen with a gay couple but I am pretty sure that it is no more likely than that of a heterosexual couple.

There are countless numbers of children out there that require a home and a loving family; orphans or children in foster care that need all the love they can get. According to some, the only way they can get the full spectrum of that love and care is with a heterosexual couple. In this country there is a lengthy process to get through before you can adopt a child or enter foster care. It is a not a process that any old person would put themselves through. They do it because they want a child. They want to care for that child and subsequently contribute something to society. They do it because they want a child and are not necessarily able to do so by conventional means. Whatever happens, that child is far more likely to get all the love that they need. Personally, I would rather see a child go to a couple that really wants to be parents than a baby being born a casualty of a boozy night out. Of course, that ‘accident’ doesn’t automatically equate to bad parenting but it doesn’t make it any better than a gay couple parenting. Dare I say it, such an inauspicious beginning does not bode particularly well for the future of that child. Again, I am not claiming that this is always the case, but I still fail to see how a homosexual couple adopting can be any worse.

Ultimately, my personal feelings on the matter have not changed. I still do not want to be a parent. However, I fully support any other homosexual couple out there that does. I think Will Young should go for it. I see no reason why he couldn’t be as a good a parent as any heterosexual person out there. Personally, I will stick with having a cat; at least they never learn to talk...
 

silenthillXD

Hyper Poster
Thats an awesome article! I myself am gay and this is acctualy a well rounded and certainly interesting article. I must admit I do see your point about the bullying, admittedly I have been incredibly lucky at my school with homophobia, but I can imagine that many other schools wouldn't have such a friendly response. But I think ultimately as time goes on peoples views on homosexuality will change and hopefully if gay marriage gets induced, then hopefully some peoples attitudes may change towards homosexuality and adoption. Anyway, this is a cool post which raises some really good points. Whats your blog called? I really have to check it out!
 

gavin

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
I yearn for the days when being gay was a perfectly good reason for NOT getting married and/or having kids. Stupid equality.
 

tks

Strata Poster
Ugh, children 24/7 wouldn't be for me. But if you could say rent out an ethnic minority for the day that would be amazing. The ultimate fashion accessory!
 

nadroJ

CF Legend
gavin said:
I yearn for the days when being gay was a perfectly good reason for NOT getting married and/or having kids. Stupid equality.

I feel the same! I long for the days when all that would be expected of me was to marry someone who would look after me, have some babies and make food. Yerrrr.

On topic, I think anybody willing to devote their time and love to a child should be allowed to do so. There are so many hideously neglectful 'normal' mother-father parents who have done atrocious things to children, and yet it seems at this moment in time that it would be more publicly acceptable to have two 'normal' yet extremely abusive and irresponsible parents than to have an abnormal yet much better and functional gay parenting unit, which is of course ridiculous!

The way I see it the world is becoming more and more educated, it took years for it to become normal for women to be at work, having the vote, whatever so I am sure that in time it will eventually become acceptable to have gay parents.
 

Error

Strata Poster
I love my dad's believe that "gay parents make gay kids". Well, based on that logic, he's gay :p

Seriously though, I never saw this as a huge debate for a simple reason: I'm not allowed to say who should and shouldn't get married. Congress and laws should be kept out of the bedroom, and they should be used for their original intend: everyone has a chance of happiness.
 

SaiyanHajime

CF Legend
Error said:
I love my dad's believe that "gay parents make gay kids". Well, based on that logic, he's gay :p
Just because a=b doesnt mean b=a. It makes logical sense that all kids brought up by gay parents turn out gay, but there are other things that can cause gayness too. A bit like how, all.. humans are mammals but not al mammals are human.

But, back to seriousness and not pettyness... I think there is a lot of truth in what your dad ignorantly believes. I think kids are, ultimately, mostly the product of their parents 90% of the time, and to be anything else takes a colossal spanner in the works and a very strong personality. I think that's depressingly rare. Most people are the religion of their parents, have the same political stance and share many personality characteristics with them.

I DO NOT think all kids brought up by gay parents would turn out gay, but I do think it would be a higher number than compared to straight couples. I think the very fact that homosexuality is on the rise as society becomes more accepting is evidence enough of this. It's not just down to people "coming out", it's down to people actually having different personalities, feelings and such BECAUSE of society changing. If parents are accepting and encouraging of any thought, feeling, behaviour it will grow, and not being accepting from day 1 will usually cause the child not to be too.

The fundamental question is, is this a bad thing? I don't see why it is. The only problem with being gay is how society treats gay individuals.
 

Snoo

The Legend
^That.

I have a firm belief that children are products of the parents.. and while I think gay parents may/are better then 80% of straight parents.. that "Well Daddy and Daddy do it.. I'll do it too" thing growing up can sway children to a side they might not have thought of with straight parents.

Again, I have no problem with people being gay in any respect at all.. but being taught to a child who may NOT be gay kinda pushes my boundaries a bit.. and we all know societies stance.

Of course, I have the exact same feeling about religion.. but that's an accepted practice so no one cares about that stuff right?
 

SaiyanHajime

CF Legend
...But, I do not see why homosexual couples cannot be parents. There's no logical reason why not. Even if there was a 100% chance the children would be gay themselves. Why is that a problem? And even if it was a problem, would it be more of a problem than having no family at all? No. And anyone who thinks so... is a morally inapt fool.
 

Snoo

The Legend
^Agreed. To think anyone can't be parents because they are attracted to the same gender is ludicrous. Those crack heads and dope dealers becoming parents.. those are the **** who wouldn't be parents.

But.. society.. etc etc..
 

Intricks

Strata Poster
Umm, having gay parents doesnt automatically mean the child will be gay. They will be more open to experimentation in the long run, but their sexuality isnt based off of social trends and statistics. The phrase "gay parents equals gay kids" is 100% ludicrous to believe in. If that is true, kids who have parents that commit murder will do the exact same thing. That is a completely idiotic notion to believe in, plain and simple.

You can't teach a kid to be gay as it isn't something learned. I grew up in a healthy home and was interested in tits as a kid. Not sure when I realized it (when I was below the age of 10), but dick was what was turning me on more. I didn't come out til I was 20, but had 3 girlfriends before I ever came out. Nobody taught me to be gay, if anything, societal behaviors and media mongering told me being gay was bad, and that I should only be with a woman. I knew I was gay when I was probably 13 or 14, but was terrified of admitting it due to listening to the media and religion (note, my parents never once said being gay was bad, but I went to church as a kid and went to a kids church program called Awana's).

Gay parenting is something I never really thought of, but my in-the-works life partner and I just recently had an in depth convo about this. I think I would be willing and wanting to experience being a father with him.

Switching between the hideouts'...
 

SaiyanHajime

CF Legend
^ You're the stupidest person on the forums in a long time. Do you ever read anything, think, or take anything in? Your black and white thought process is driving me insane and you twist words into knotts.
 

kimahri

CF Legend
I don't really have anything to add other than express my oppinion of I don't really care on if parents are gay or stright. As long as they care about the kid/s then all's fine.

I only really wanted to post cause Joey made me lol.
 

thx

Mega Poster
nadroJ said:
On topic, I think anybody willing to devote their time and love to a child should be allowed to do so. There are so many hideously neglectful 'normal' mother-father parents who have done atrocious things to children, and yet it seems at this moment in time that it would be more publicly acceptable to have two 'normal' yet extremely abusive and irresponsible parents than to have an abnormal yet much better and functional gay parenting unit, which is of course ridiculous!
Spot on.
I know that there could be/well, I think is some bullying as of now, but even during the last five years I've seen quite much progress in society's attitudes against gays and I guess in some years if gays could be parents and more gay people would decide to "get/adopt" kids then the attitudes might hopefully change between the school children and adults. However considering that gays are a minority, I'm pretty sure it will take a long time until school children will see it as normal for their friends to have gay parents. However those attitudes could become more acceptable if the society decides to do something and people would start to talk to, teach, educate young kids about gays already in kindergarten etc.
 

tomahawk

Strata Poster
Personally I feel that if they are the best people to take care of said child, go for it because being in a loving, caring environment that will lead them grow into the best people they can be, is the best situation regardless if it is single parent, married heterosexual or homosexual. As long as they care for the kid and raise it to the best of their abilities, then awesome.
 

TTDfan52

Mega Poster
Joey said:
Just because a=b doesnt mean b=a.

Lol. Sorry to break up the seriousness of this topic, but for math nerds like me this statement is wrong. I know what you were trying to get at Joey, but if a=b, then b has to equal a. Sorry about the randomness.
 
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