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Europa Park | Mack Rides BigDipper | 2023

Matt N

Strata Poster
I always wonder why this isn't more popular - it works great on Saw and Oblivion too but very few coasters seem to do it, even the other Merlin B&M dives don't have it, and have pretty poor throughputs as a result.
In fairness, some of the larger Dive Coasters have a number of riders per train that nearly equals that of a dual dispatch on Oblivion; the 8-across dive coasters are 75% of the way there, and the 10-across dive coasters (is Griffon the only one?) nearly equal Oblivion’s dual dispatch capacity in one train.

In terms of the Merlin ones; do they have low throughputs? I thought they hit around 1,000pph, which I certainly wouldn’t call poor myself. But each to their own, I guess! For a park like Heide Park, where Krake is, I can imagine that the 2,000pph that dual load would bring possibly wouldn’t be necessary on the vast majority of days.
 

Gazza

Giga Poster
Not even required. You could load 2 trains and dispatch those at the same time. But one waits in a block directly after the station / before the ride really begins. Like it is done with Poseidon or Matterhorn Blitz.
Actually, posiedon is a great example... Achieves 1690 per hour with 8 person vehicles.
 

cookie

Hyper Poster
Actually, posiedon is a great example... Achieves 1690 per hour with 8 person vehicles.
I doubt the Big Dipper is going to be made to run with 22 trains, though. Even 12 trains like Matterhorn would require a copious amount of block sections.
 
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VonRolland

Hyper Poster
I doubt the Big Dipper is going to be made to run with 22 trains, though. Even 12 trains like Matterhorn would require a copious amount of block sections.
Can't really see it being more than 4/5 trains per side tho just look at Lost Gravity running 3 trains
 

CrashCoaster

CF Legend
Can't really see it being more than 4/5 trains per side tho just look at Lost Gravity running 3 trains
Lost Gravity runs 4 cars.

If Europa dispatch two cars at once on a Big Dipper (or have 2 sides if it's duelling), the throughput would add up quickly. Even more so if the trains are more than 2-rows long. Perhaps we could be looking at 4-rows similar to a Gerst Infinity?
 

Gazza

Giga Poster
I doubt the Big Dipper is going to be made to run with 22 trains, though. Even 12 trains like Matterhorn would require a copious amount of block sections.

You wouldn't need 22 cars on a big dipper because the duration would only be 2 mins or so, not 6 mins like Posiedon.

18 second dispatch interval + load and unload is probably 8 or so cars on the track.

I guess what I was trying to demonstrate is that car size or even number of cars does not determine capacity alone, it's the interval.
 

VonRolland

Hyper Poster
Lost Gravity runs 4 cars.

If Europa dispatch two cars at once on a Big Dipper (or have 2 sides if it's duelling), the throughput would add up quickly. Even more so if the trains are more than 2-rows long. Perhaps we could be looking at 4-rows similar to a Gerst Infinity?
Never seen 4 cars on at once before over multiple visits. Hope it's not more than 2 row's would take away from the model id imagine...
 

UP87

Mega Poster
I guess what I was trying to demonstrate is that car size or even number of cars does not determine capacity alone, it's the interval.
In fact the number of block sections and number of cars doesn't matter at all. That's only highly dependent on the track length. The number of riders are only determined by the dispatch times and size of the ride vehicle.
 

CSLKennyNI

Giga Poster
I find the chances of this not being a duelling coaster ever decreasing; and as discussed 2 BigDippers can easily achieve the desired capacity.
Plus in such an awkward and narrow site the maneuverers and small cars of the BigDipper would be well suited, even 2 alongside each other, compared to one super long layout with longer trains (if it were Hagrid-esque for example). Having stood there often in person I really can't actually believe that location is being used. It is super tight.

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The duelling rumour has been around some years. Michael Mack in 2018 first teasing the super long track length, and his 2019 tease that in the future "one or maybe even two new coasters" would come (Source), only bolstered the rumours/speculation.

And then the biggest clue as posted about earlier this year - the dual attraction trademarks which tie into the Adventure Club book which sets up the backstory for the new themed area.
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The park have been recently releasing books which tie into the storytelling worlds they are creating. There's been two based on Rulantica the water park. And currently there is a series based on the Adventure Club of Europe (their version of Disney's SEA). This fictional organisation ties together stories of rides in the park (Voletarium, Madame Freundenrich, new Piraten in Batavia and Rulantica) and will be the basis for future projects and rethemes.

The ACE book series is described on their website as based on current and future attractions in the park. The first 2 books have dealt with Batavia and Voletarium. The 3rd book is released in Autumn 2021 and its synopsis teases it will be set in Croatia and feature a phantom of the underworld that is said to live in the catacombs under the Zagreb theater. The four ACE Scouts when in the underworld also come across an apparatus built by Nicola Tesla (who was from Croatia).

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This has all created quite a speculation buzz among fans - alongside Romania, Croatia is the other most often rumoured country the new themed area in the park might be (supposedly Michael Mack has always been keen on it since his wife is from there).

The mention of catacombs brings to mind another rumour about the new area over the years; that Traumatica's mazes would be permanently housed in the area's basement level.

And last but not least the area's main attraction the new coaster - there have been rumours it will actually be duelling coasters. Michael Mack's remark a couple years back (as posted earlier in this thread - Link) about the ride featuring a couple kms track have only added to that speculation.
The duel OHM names of Apparatus and Transferator - potential names of the coasters?

But if not - we may see Croatia come to Europa Park and Apparatus and Transferator are our long waited new Mack Coasters. Hopefully later this year we might find out more, and if 2023 is still on the cards - see construction begin.
Source

So more on that theory few posts above that the Apparatus OHM and Transferator OHM trademarks relate to the new ACE Book and that the book is dealing with the backstory of the new themed area and coasters. The book cover has been revealed confirming the link - on the left edge there is another depiction of the "apparatus built by Telsa" and it has the OHM symbol on it like the trademarked logos.
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So if the trademarks related to the book are future attractions I think it seems fairly certain that Croatia is the next new area and presumably the duelling coasters rumours are accurate with those dual names.
Croatia, an underworld with a monster, old experiments by Nikola Telsa. Shaping up to be an interesting backstory for sure.




If these are all just many perfectly fitting coincidences and it is not a duelling coaster I'll eat my hat.
 

Peter Immelmann

Mega Poster
In fact the number of block sections and number of cars doesn't matter at all. That's only highly dependent on the track length. The number of riders are only determined by the dispatch times and size of the ride vehicle.
Except for the case of moving car dispatches. In this case, train length does not matter anymore and we are back to the number of blocks or better to say the time interval between the closest blocks being the bottleneck...

Of course, having blocks every 15 or 20 sec is awkward. But on the other hand, maybe Mack comes up with some new block concepts, more like lots of mini-launches or so. Would be a great innovation.
 

Peter Immelmann

Mega Poster
Well, I don't expect this to come anywhere near FLY (theming-wise) and in particular I don't expect a dedicated themed area you could enter. The plot of land is somewhat lengthy, probably not optimal for something like this. But yeah, a nice theming with some dark ride part seems kind of likely to me.
 

CSLKennyNI

Giga Poster
I believe the land marked/planning permission is just for the attraction so the new themed area is not included. That will likely be in the space beside (the Immer Weider Sonntages show area and Traumatica site). Like Blue Fire you probably have a themed street/square beside the coaster rather than both intertwined like Rookburgh or Klugheim.
 

CSLKennyNI

Giga Poster
As referenced to in a few previous posts the next Adventure Club of Europe book, believed to be setting up the story for the new area and coaster, has been released now.

“Since more than 100 years there’s has been a dark secret deep under the old opera house. A phantom they say lives here in an underground world. It used to be a scientist, a close friend of the famous inventor Nicola Tesla. Through dangerous experiments he was seriously injured. Those who investigate the secret of the phantom in the underground world; will find a mysterious invention - an apparatus.”

“A little tip for all fans: it’s worth taking a look for a glimpse into the future”

One fan has pointed out the described apparatus in the book would fit well to an indoor vertical ride of some kind. However the coasters could also be the 'energy journey' which is even compared to a rollercoaster ride in the book. Would be a crazy move to tease a future ride and it's story which will come after the 2023 coasters, so as nice as EP Tower of Terror would be, most are sticking with the theory that this is the set up for the coaster.
 

cookie

Hyper Poster
EP’s version of Tower of Terror (or even Mystery Castle) would be fab, though. Hope they pull it off one day.
 
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