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CWOA | Project Amazon | B&M Wing Coaster (Jumanji Land?)| 2023

JoshC.

Giga Poster
Regarding the £3.5m cost quoted in plans. I haven't read the related document, but I expect that will be in relation to the construction cost, as opposed to the project cost. The council don't need to know how much the park are spending on the investment. However, they may be interested in knowing how much is spent on preparing the land and actual construction, as some of that money may go to more local firms, and knowing a cost gives an expected quality too.
Just for reference, in the Thorpe documents for Ghost Train, they stated a £3m construction cost which I believe was exclusively for the building and land prep.

As for the throughput, this won't be great. 24 riders per cycle. To hit 720pph they need to send 30 trains an hour (one every 2 minutes). Given the burden of loading and unloading wing coasters, as well as checking restraints, that won't happen.
Just for reference too, there's no way Dragon's Fury gets anywhere near that figure either these days, and I find it gobsmacking that it ever got anywhere near that in the first place.

It's an interesting investment. If we look at it from a purely marketing box ticking / market research side of things, you have:
-First inversion at the park
-First launch at the park
-First backwards motion coaster at the park (excluding Fury's lift hill which doesn't count)
-First multi launch wing coaster
-First shuttle wing coaster
-Potentially first Jumanji land at a park(?)

Merlin love their firsts, and it's hard to argue against the fact that some of the above sound like a great fit for the park and where they are now. The curiosity lies in what we have ended up with...

-A ride with a throughput which doesn't sound high enough
-A ride from a company whose rides have high height restrictions
-An odd layout

All of these could end up not being problems. It feels like there's a little more to this than meets the eye. I just hope that the park haven't gone too heavy on the market research and tried to create an investment which ticks all the boxes whilst losing sight of the overall aim: to create a ride which is fun.

As for the potential of yet another IP...I don't mind it. IPs are good when done right. The Gruffalo IP shows that. Chessington's other IPs are more mixed (Room on the Broom doesn't work, Elmer's is inoffensive). Would I prefer an original concept? Yes. Could a Jumanji theme work? Yes, especially if they create an original idea that can exist in the overall universe with references to both the original and new films, whilst being a standalone thing in its own right. That could work really well.

Alternatively, the main theming piece could be a giant statue of The Rock and I think it would be worth it for that alone.
 

Matt N

Strata Poster
Ummmm


Yeah I Dunno why anyone hates this. It's a step up from a regular Vekoma / Gerst family shuttle and looks like a fun in between ride.

Just so long as the height limit is appropriate. It would be absurd if it was 1.4m like Swarm.

Which makes me wonder why it has the inversion....A wing with seats like the chinese family inverts would actually be amazing.
Interestingly, the height limit is due to be 1.4m. This will be a “first big thrill” if you like.
 

spicy

Giga Poster
Interestingly, the height limit is due to be 1.4m. This will be a “first big thrill” if you like.

This is my only problem with it. This needs to have 1.1/1.2m like Vampire & DF.

If you are going for first thrill with a 1.4m height restriction then go all out and build a thrilling layout?

Arguably Dragon’s Fury will be more intense than this.

Other than that it’s very interesting and I never thought we would ever see a B&M at CWoA, they just don’t create bad coasters.

Even if the layout is a strange shuttle coaster, it’s a B&M strange shuttle coaster which automatically makes it a good one.
 

Crazycoaster

Giga Poster
Seeing people call Merlin creative staff "dumbf***s" is more disappointing to me than the coaster announcement itself.

I understand us goons can get frustrated by wacky decisions, but being an enthusiast doesn't automatically mean you know what's best for a park. Or how to market a ride. Why talk down about the people that made these decisions, when you have no idea what their creative constraints were?

Jumanji? B+M? Inversion and launch? Lovely! Sounds v. cool for Chessington. Definitely better than 18yrs of nothing.

I can't help but feel that there's a trend of being a tad unfair to Merlin parks of late.

Why was a small Mack spinner with a bit of generic Americana themeing the second coming of Christ - but this, a custom, unique B+M with a hugely popular IP seemingly the most disappointing thing in the world?

If Croc Drop is anything to go by, the standard of themeing on this new coaster could be very impressive!

Do I love shuttle coasters? Absolutely not. But I must admit I am certainly intrigued by these plans. It looks fun!
Just to clarify, I wasn’t referring to the creative team, I was referring to the people that actually make the decisions, that okay the projects, and funding amount.


Sure, the creative team has constraints, but a lot of those are added by the the executives that make the decisions, that approve the budgets. The ones that try to squeeze every drop of money out of the parks and give little back.

That’s why people are “unfair” about Merlin, and that’s why people appreciate Paultons for investing more time and effort into their park, while having a significantly smaller profit margin and visitor number. If Paultons can do it, why the hell can’t Merlin? Because they’re greedy.

Merlin have been underinvesting into their parks for 2 decades and it shows. It shows in every single “wtf merlin” post, it shows in every single part of the parks that has been left to rot on multiple occasions. The people that have been in charge of those decisions are the ones I happily called “dumbf*cks”.
 

Howie

Strata Poster
So I'm looking at those drawings of the track layout yeah, and I don't know whether it's an optical illusion, or a not very accurate drawing, or maybe I'm just plain wrong... but the track gauge appears to be narrower than that of a full size wing coaster such as the Swarm. In much the same way that the smaller dive coasters with 6 abreast trains have narrower track than the 8 and 10 seater variants.
Could we be looking at a new, junior type of wing coaster with smaller, lighter trains?
I mean, it's clearly not going to have to withstand speeds and forces on the level of the big'uns, so maybe this will have 'winged' trains something more akin to Skyrush or Hyperion, rather than the full on, wide boys?
 

Jared

Hyper Poster
So I'm looking at those drawings of the track layout yeah, and I don't know whether it's an optical illusion, or a not very accurate drawing, or maybe I'm just plain wrong... but the track gauge appears to be narrower than that of a full size wing coaster such as the Swarm. In much the same way that the smaller dive coasters with 6 abreast trains have narrower track than the 8 and 10 seater variants.
Could we be looking at a new, junior type of wing coaster with smaller, lighter trains?
I mean, it's clearly not going to have to withstand speeds and forces on the level of the big'uns, so maybe this will have 'winged' trains something more akin to Skyrush or Hyperion, rather than the full on, wide boys?
The track gauge is listing in the planning application as being 1.3m wide. I don't know if we have any data that gives us an indication of whether or not this is different to others. I feel it's the same size, but I could be wrong. I think if anything is likely to be different to the likes of the Swarm, it'll potentially be in the seat design, perhaps to accommodate a smaller guest, but like has been said. At the consultation, we were told this would be a 1.4m ride.

A lot of people seem to be questioning why they'd be building a "Thrill Ride" or one which goes upside down. Strangely enough, these are also the same people who I saw complaining when the park announced that Rameses Revenge was being removed... (Not saying that's people here, I'm generalising). This is a major investment into the park and one I'm excited about.

Throughput could be an issue, but is it with Croc Drop? Croc Drop for example only has an estimated capacity of 360pph. That's half of this proposed coaster and according to my maths has an average queue time of 60 minutes. Does the park receive a lot of complaints about the queue times? No. Do they receive a lot of positive feedback about how visual and exciting Croc Drop looks? Yes. Visual appeal in a lot of cases can appease guests and make them happier about waiting a little longer for a ride.

I'm sure they'll do the best they can to launch this in the right way. It'll have to operate with a minimum amount of staff due to how B&M set these things up, so assuming the minimum of 4 on the platform, one operator and potentially a batcher, each host will have 6 seats to check. This is less than the average of 7 they have to do on Swarm and from my experience, they can easily get the ride out in 60 seconds and that's with people faffing with bags. This will have one train, so hopefully will be slightly more efficient from a storage perspective.
 

roomraider

Best Topic Starter
It's an interesting investment. If we look at it from a purely marketing box ticking / market research side of things, you have:
-First inversion at the park
-First launch at the park
-First backwards motion coaster at the park (excluding Fury's lift hill which doesn't count)
-First multi launch wing coaster
-First shuttle wing coaster
-Potentially first Jumanji land at a park(?)

A bit of pedantry but first B&M shuttle wing coaster rather than first shuttle wing coaster as there have been at least 2 others out there. Although admittedly both are now SBNO.

y1tfl3myv3v51.jpgaaggzca.jpeg
 

Fleetwood_Mack

Roller Poster
Merlin clearly taking a leaf out of Tussauds book and splitting one ride into two like Stealth and Rita "definitely", "originally" were. Half a B&M for Chessington and half a B&M for Towers! Mark my words!

It's great that they're finally getting a new coaster, good for them, but I'm underwhelmed. Another attraction totally revolving around some gimmick with an IP instead of building something that's just a good ride. Like others have said I will definitely be there to experience Barrel Roll: The Ride but they could have done so much better...
 
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Chris Brown

Mr CoasterForce 2016
Wouldn’t surprise me if this is a smaller iteration of the wing coaster with 1 seat on each wing. Would be peak Chessington.
 

Screaming Coasters

Strata Poster
Just to clarify, I wasn’t referring to the creative team, I was referring to the people that actually make the decisions, that okay the projects, and funding amount.


Sure, the creative team has constraints, but a lot of those are added by the the executives that make the decisions, that approve the budgets. The ones that try to squeeze every drop of money out of the parks and give little back.

That’s why people are “unfair” about Merlin, and that’s why people appreciate Paultons for investing more time and effort into their park, while having a significantly smaller profit margin and visitor number. If Paultons can do it, why the hell can’t Merlin? Because they’re greedy.

Merlin have been underinvesting into their parks for 2 decades and it shows. It shows in every single “wtf merlin” post, it shows in every single part of the parks that has been left to rot on multiple occasions. The people that have been in charge of those decisions are the ones I happily called “dumbf*cks”.

Don't worry bro, there's always someone on CF who has to be on a high-horse. I completely agree with what you say and I do think Merlin's creative team suck. I've even said it to their face at association meet-ups.
 

MakoMania

Mega Poster
I’ll have to credit a post I read on the TowersStreet forum here, but it does seem that that final helix that will be taken both forwards and backwards is banked at an extreme angle that seems to me like it would be highly uncomfortable with static seats at such a low speed. Could we have some sort of seat movement on the trains here as a new B&M prototype?

My own thinking here is this is possibly another B&M surf coaster. We never got any ideas of layout for the one destined for SeaWorld Orlando, but we did find out that it would be a launch coaster, which this is too.

Just a thought.
 

Gazza

Giga Poster
Could a surf coaster be like the Axis or Tranan? In which case an inversion would be inconsequential.
 

Jared

Hyper Poster
I believe the issue with height restrictions is quite limited due to UK laws. Technically Saw and Smiler can (and do) operate with a 1.2m height restriction. Likewise, albeit likely due to different reasons, most Wild Mouses run as a 1.1m but Rattlesnake is a 1.4m.

I think there is potential for this to feature different restraints and seats which could allow for a smaller height restriction, but at the time of the consultation, that was likely not confirmed and so we were told it was a 1.4m ride. So it’s not outside of the realms of possibility that it could be a lower restriction.

With it likely that there are two more Family B&M coasters going into the new Legoland in China, perhaps B&M are designing or adapting their seats for a smaller audience, which could open themselves up to a new market. Albeit a very competitive one.
 

VonRolland

Hyper Poster
I believe the issue with height restrictions is quite limited due to UK laws. Technically Saw and Smiler can (and do) operate with a 1.2m height restriction. Likewise, albeit likely due to different reasons, most Wild Mouses run as a 1.1m but Rattlesnake is a 1.4m.

I think there is potential for this to feature different restraints and seats which could allow for a smaller height restriction, but at the time of the consultation, that was likely not confirmed and so we were told it was a 1.4m ride. So it’s not outside of the realms of possibility that it could be a lower restriction.

With it likely that there are two more Family B&M coasters going into the new Legoland in China, perhaps B&M are designing or adapting their seats for a smaller audience, which could open themselves up to a new market. Albeit a very competitive one.
Nothing to do with UK Law's just Merlin being over cautious, See Speed (1.25m) & Rage (1.20m) as an example
 

Ian

From CoasterForce
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Social Media Team
Now this is finally out there, and I’ve given it some thought, I think this is a sound move.

I’m pleased to see Merlin take a gamble on something new. It may not have the capacity but it has stature. I bet this will be the ride goons across the UK will be heading for on opening day - myself being one of them.

It’s not going to thrill anybody reading this, but it will excite them. Who here is not excited to try B&Ms newest offering at one of the UK premier parks? I’m looking forward to seeing how it works, how many disillusioned goons fumble for positives around the exit, how many self-entitled middle class mums are angry about wait times. Its not going to be thrilling but it’s right for the park and it’s target market. It’s going to be fun, fun, FUN!

It’s not made for us. It’s made for Chessington’s target market. It’s perfect. And even if it doesn’t tick all the boxes we’d hope for, we’re all going to secretly love it. I openly love it already.
 
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