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Cedar Point 2020: What could it be?

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
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For those interested, Cedar Fair has released a strategy plan (essentially PowerPoint slidedeck for investors) to describe growth and projects going forward: https://s2.q4cdn.com/170666959/files/doc_financials/2018/q4/1902-FUN-Investor-Presentation.pdf

In general, there's a lot of emphasis on boosting development of adjacent properties and improving in-park experience for guests. Partly tangential to all things Cedar Point 2020, as we've gotten general vibes of a park wide celebration with multiple events and features planned, rather than a specific attraction being planned.
 

Aaron Smith

Member
The slide on Long-Term Strategy Fundamentals was interesting... in particular this statement " Existing inventory of thrill rides allows for spacing out larger investments over a longer period of time"

I wonder how many years they are going to go between large investments in parks. I know there are parks that haven't had any major investment (Michigan's Adventure) in a long time but I wonder if we won't see another major investment at Cedar Point until 2021 or even 2022. Also, I really wish that during Halloweekends at Cedar Point that you could check out of Hotel Breakers on a Monday. I like to go on Sunday's during the fall since it's generally pretty empty (never have waited for that 30 minutes for a coaster, and that's usually MF or Maverick) and I would love to stay at Breakers but I have to stay off site since they won't accept bookings with a Monday check out. That could be a revenue booster as well since I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 

Hyde

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Also, I really wish that during Halloweekends at Cedar Point that you could check out of Hotel Breakers on a Monday. I like to go on Sunday's during the fall since it's generally pretty empty (never have waited for that 30 minutes for a coaster, and that's usually MF or Maverick) and I would love to stay at Breakers but I have to stay off site since they won't accept bookings with a Monday check out. That could be a revenue booster as well since I'm sure I'm not the only one.
This dovetails with Cedar Point equally not being targeted for Winterfest - downside of being located in a town of 24,000 without a major nearby university means staffing becomes very tight when the academic year is in full swing. You'd be appalled to see the comparison of staff to guests for regular summer operation vs. fall - Cedar Point is scraping the bottom for any staff they can have to run the park (hence Kings Island staff getting shipped up to CP).

I was definitely interested in the notion of additional seasonal events at parks - while also thinking how this could be a boost to the likes of Dorney, WoF, or Valleyfair.
 

Pokemaniac

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The slide on Long-Term Strategy Fundamentals was interesting... in particular this statement " Existing inventory of thrill rides allows for spacing out larger investments over a longer period of time"
This is interesting indeed. If I were to try to write it out in more direct speak, I'd say it was something like: "We have enough thrill rides at the moment, and will only introduce new ones when it is time to retire old ones". After all, no park can grow infinitely, and when they've hit a size they're comfortable with, they can just choose to invest at replacement rate. Say, four big thrill coasters, three kiddie/family coasters, and two "stepping stones". Want a new one of anything, just tear out the oldest or least popular equivalent. Maybe have some plans for actual expansion in your back pocket in case the market situation changes, but otherwise maintain status quo for as long as possible.

Sidenote: this very strategy is probably why Parques Reunidos only buys well-developed and established parks. When you've got no ambitions of growth, you can just invest to sustain the current situation. Kind of like loading up an old RCT save where somebody else beat the scenario goals, so you can just sit there watching it make money.
 

Hixee

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This is interesting indeed. If I were to try to write it out in more direct speak, I'd say it was something like: "We have enough thrill rides at the moment, and will only introduce new ones when it is time to retire old ones". After all, no park can grow infinitely, and when they've hit a size they're comfortable with, they can just choose to invest at replacement rate. Say, four big thrill coasters, three kiddie/family coasters, and two "stepping stones". Want a new one of anything, just tear out the oldest or least popular equivalent. Maybe have some plans for actual expansion in your back pocket in case the market situation changes, but otherwise maintain status quo for as long as possible.
I think you're probably on to something there.

Specifically looking at the bit in bold - I also like how Cedar Point is more like: Say, four seven big thrill coasters, three five kiddie/family coasters, and two five "stepping stones"*. The numbers they have to work with are just incredible.

*Based on my classification system.
 

Aaron Smith

Member
This is interesting indeed. If I were to try to write it out in more direct speak, I'd say it was something like: "We have enough thrill rides at the moment, and will only introduce new ones when it is time to retire old ones". After all, no park can grow infinitely, and when they've hit a size they're comfortable with, they can just choose to invest at replacement rate. Say, four big thrill coasters, three kiddie/family coasters, and two "stepping stones". Want a new one of anything, just tear out the oldest or least popular equivalent. Maybe have some plans for actual expansion in your back pocket in case the market situation changes, but otherwise maintain status quo for as long as possible.

Sidenote: this very strategy is probably why Parques Reunidos only buys well-developed and established parks. When you've got no ambitions of growth, you can just invest to sustain the current situation. Kind of like loading up an old RCT save where somebody else beat the scenario goals, so you can just sit there watching it make money.
Very interesting take on that statement. I guess I'm just being greedy when I want to see CP continue to add new coasters while maintaining all the other ones. I know it's not feasible in the long term but I can dream.

One other interesting thing about that presentation was the breakdown slide of the size of each park and how much room each had for development. Some parks have a ton of space to work with so it'll be interesting to see if some others see expansion.
 

Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
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I think you're probably on to something there.

Specifically looking at the bit in bold - I also like how Cedar Point is more like: Say, four seven big thrill coasters, three five kiddie/family coasters, and two five "stepping stones"*. The numbers they have to work with are just incredible.

*Based on my classification system.
Cedar Point is very impressive, indeed, and it will remain an interesting park to follow even if they have no ambitions to grow further. If we assume a life span of 30 years or so for a coaster, and they have 17 of them, they will need to replace one every two years to sustain their size. Even though half of them are family-scale rides, a new coaster every other year should be enough to pique the interest of most coaster fans. And since each big thrill coaster is so expensive, they need to be replaced at a very regular rate too, because the park probably can't afford to clump those huge expensive coaster purchases together. Large, complicated projects should at least come with some predictability.

Conversely, consider a smaller park with three thrill coasters, two kiddie coasters and two stepping stones (like Michigan's Adventure or Dorney Park). Given a life span of 30 years for a coaster, that's more than four years between every new one, and ten years between every thrill coaster. And if some of the coasters were built shortly after another, as is the case for both those parks, in reality there can be well over a decade between coaster renewals. When the coasters are replaced, they will probably be spaced out a little more on the timeline, meaning that coasters built two years apart can be replaced five years apart... translating into even longer waits for renewal.

One other interesting thing about that presentation was the breakdown slide of the size of each park and how much room each had for development. Some parks have a ton of space to work with so it'll be interesting to see if some others see expansion.
Keep in mind that expansion needs to be justified by the market potential of the park. There's no sense expanding a park if there aren't enough people living nearby to fill it. Not every park can be a destination park like SFMM or Cedar Point, where people drive across half the country to get to it. The park can only expect a certain income based on nearby demographics, and the costs (i.e. maintenance of coasters) have to be adjusted accordingly, so even if there is room, the park doesn't necessarily have to (or want to) fill it up with more attractions until they run out of space. Lots of room does mean they can splurge a little on sprawling layouts, though. Think how Lightwater Valley built The Ultimate vs. how BPB built Icon. And it gives them amazing flexibility for rebuilds. Room to move the entire parking lot if they have to, for instance.
 

Antinos

Slut for Spinners
Social Media Team
This dovetails with Cedar Point equally not being targeted for Winterfest - downside of being located in a town of 24,000 without a major nearby university means staffing becomes very tight when the academic year is in full swing. You'd be appalled to see the comparison of staff to guests for regular summer operation vs. fall - Cedar Point is scraping the bottom for any staff they can have to run the park (hence Kings Island staff getting shipped up to CP).

I was definitely interested in the notion of additional seasonal events at parks - while also thinking how this could be a boost to the likes of Dorney, WoF, or Valleyfair.
This may be true regarding Winterfest, but the main driver is the park's infrastructure based on what we were told at last year's Winter Chill Out. Plumbing is only about six inches underground and is aerated after the park closes for the winter. Every bathroom, food stall, and restaurant is winterized to prevent pipes from freezing. Cedar Point wants Winterfest and has investigated the feasibility and it doesn't look promising. At this point, Winterfest at Cedar Point would involve very little food and drink and porta-potties for restrooms. Granted...Winter Chill Out 2019 is in three days so we may learn something new on Saturday afternoon.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
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This may be true regarding Winterfest, but the main driver is the park's infrastructure based on what we were told at last year's Winter Chill Out. Plumbing is only about six inches underground and is aerated after the park closes for the winter. Every bathroom, food stall, and restaurant is winterized to prevent pipes from freezing. Cedar Point wants Winterfest and has investigated the feasibility and it doesn't look promising. At this point, Winterfest at Cedar Point would involve very little food and drink and porta-potties for restrooms. Granted...Winter Chill Out 2019 is in three days so we may learn something new on Saturday afternoon.
That's a good point on infrastructure, I was only thinking of it from a staffing perspective. Will be interested if it's discussed this weekend.
 

Hyde

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Antinos

Slut for Spinners
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Some additional good shots of the new Corkscrew train paint job:


The Sandusky Register also has a good photo tour from today's Winter Chillout event: http://www.sanduskyregister.com/story/201902230006

A lot of highlight focus on the new BackBeatBBQ restaurant going in on the old Witch's Wheel site. I'll save that rant for another day, and Cedar Fair apparent proclamation for bringing barbecue to the masses. :p
GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT


The best industry related news I've heard all off season is that Steel Vengeance is getting loose article pockets. I hope it works well in practice, but it sounds like they learned their lesson from the cell phone ban.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
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GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT
MAGA.

Super stoked about the loose article pockets, especially as it provides an about-face for Cedar Fair's draconian locker policy. Probably a one-off all things considered, but glad Cedar Point is acknowledging the need for cell phone storage. Also means @Error doesn't need to worry about feeling guilty for trying to sneak his phone aboard. :p
 

Snoo

The Legend
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MAGA.

Super stoked about the loose article pockets, especially as it provides an about-face for Cedar Fair's draconian locker policy. Probably a one-off all things considered, but glad Cedar Point is acknowledging the need for cell phone storage. Also means @Error doesn't need to worry about feeling guilty for trying to sneak his phone aboard. :p
MAKE STEEL VENGEANCE GREAT AGAIN!
 

bernatc22

Member
Any news? Or can we officially start to lower our hopes por a 150th aniversary mind-blowing, never-seen-before expansion? LOL
 
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