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Alton Towers | Nemesis Reborn | B&M Retrack | 2024

rob666

Hyper Poster
What about a large scaffold tent so they can do all the work under cover.
Lots of big building firms cover properties in a tent to re-roof.
 

Nicky Borrill

Strata Poster
"Seeking to confirm the lawfulness of maintenance works."
this just means they’re checking whether the maintenance is a permitted development or needs a full separate planning application…

Don’t worry :) either way it doesn’t cause too much of an issue.

Edited to add: Also the title of this thread is misleading, as strictly speaking this isn’t a ‘planning application’ yet. Hence the 'proposal' under type... When it is an application the type will read something like 'full planning application.'

Edited again to add: I missed @Indy 's post first scan through, basically nailed it before me...
 
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Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
What about a large scaffold tent so they can do all the work under cover.
Lots of big building firms cover properties in a tent to re-roof.
That's to avoid water damage to building materials such as wood or insulation, though. It wouldn't be needed for a coaster, which doesn't contain any materials that must remain dry at all times. While the tent also provides shelter for the workers, that's mostly a side effect – it would be too expensive to put a tent up just for the sake of comfort.

I think the absolutely worst thing that could happen to Nemesis is that the stability of the pit could start to fail. That would be hard if not impossible to fix without removing most of the coaster temporarily. It is also an unlikely scenario, however, but the thought gave me the idea that this work could involve some digging. That would presumably require a permit.
 

Matt N

CF Legend
Edited to add: Also the title of this thread is misleading, as strictly speaking this isn’t a ‘planning application’ yet. Hence the 'proposal' under type... When it is an application the type will read something like 'full planning application.’
Fair point @Nicky Borrill; I’ve edited the thread title slightly.
 

Heth

Mega Poster
I think they always start off invalid, and then they become valid when documents are attached.

That's not typically how it works. When submitting an application you submit sufficient documentation to get the application registered and fully validated.
 

Peet

Giga Poster
This kind of application is similar to what you need for house extensions that fall under permitted developments, just to get official approval that planning permission is not needed.

Could it simply be for the use of tall cranes for track replacement?
 

JoshC.

Strata Poster
In terms of why this application might be needed, it could be because of the park's planning application and what is allowed.

Large parts of Alton Towers are covered by a General Development Order (GDO). In short, this means that the park do not need to apply for planning permission to build rides in these areas, so long as they fit with certain, pre-agreed conditions. The park may still submit full plans out of courtesy, or if a part of the application doesn't fit within the existing conditions.
More details can be found thanks to Towers Street: https://towersstreet.com/features/articles/alton-towers-planning-restrictions/#partfour

Now, Nemesis' location falls within these GDO area. So they would not need planning permission to build something there. But let's have a look at the exact wording of the GDO, from that wonderful TS article:
The GPDO states that the following development is not permitted (in the case of Alton Towers):
In any other case, the height of the building or structure erected, extended, altered or replaced would exceed 5 metres above ground level.
The key words here are "altered" and "replaced".

Say the park want to do a full track replacement, like-for-like. What is the definition of "replaced" in the GDO? Does it mean the knocking down of a structure and putting a new structure in it's place with similar dimensions? Is a like-for-like replacement allowed? What if they keep the supports? Is that then an alteration? What is the lawful definition of an "alteration" anyway?

As an interesting example, Wicker Man also falls under this GDO area, and the park have already done some retracking on that, without the need for planning permission.

It's a bit of a ship of Thesus argument I guess. Say, hypothetically, they replaced one piece of track and one support on Nemesis each year. That would be fine, as seen by Wicker Man. So surely replacing all the track and all the supports at once would be fine too?
I imagine that's what this application is seeking to clarify. It could also be clarifying about any potential noise concerns from deconstruction and construction too.


As for the rumours surrounding a Nemesis retrack. They have been around for a while. To my knowledge, a Nemesis redevelopment has been considered for a few years now, with the park and Merlin acknowledging it was going to have to happen sooner or later if they want the ride to remain reliable and enjoyable. Maybe if Covid wasn't a thing it would already have happened / been underway. It presumably won't be cheap, and will be in lieu of a major coaster (not that Towers needs another new coaster yet anyway imo), so I would expect they would do some additional work (SFX stuff, theming, Sub Terra returns, etc etc) to make it marketable too.
 

Matt N

CF Legend
I think a full retrack would be quite a grey area in terms of whether they’d need to seek planning permission, so they’re probably just checking. There’s very little precedent for this type of thing happening in Britain.

On one hand, a complete Nemesis retrack would be a fairly substantial construction project, comparable in terms of scale to a brand new major coaster, so the council and local residents may very well want to know about it.

On the other hand, it’s a like-for-like replacement of a structure that’s been in place for the best part of 30 years, so the work wouldn’t really make any long term difference to the locals. Heck, it might even make the ride more well-liked by locals, as a lot of new B&Ms are quieter than their old coasters! I know Hulk was certainly quieter after the retrack was done, for what it’s worth.

With that in mind, it’s a toss up as to whether the locals and council would be bothered or not, so Towers is likely erring on the side of caution and informing the council just in case.

That’s if this is a Nemesis retrack, of course.
 

Bentleya

Mega Poster
Let’s look at it this way… if you own a property and you decide to knock it down and then rebuild it completely the same - you would need to get planning permission and building control involved.

If you are to knock down a single wall and then rebuild the wall - you wouldn’t need to notify anyone.

Basically, if they choose to replace a segment of track; it’s very unlikely they would need to get permission - but if you want to replace the whole thing even if it is like for like, you would need permission.
 

Thekingin64

Strata Poster
If they do re-track it, I'd would love to see the stall turn after the loop become a proper overbank. Wouldn't take much reprofiling and is the only bit of the ride that would need improvement IMO.

Either way, if these works do extend the ride's lifespan in any way, I'm all for it.
 

Thekingin64

Strata Poster
Double post but something just occurred to me.

Nemesis was SW3, the next secret weapon will be SW9. 3^2=9.

Therefore, Nemesis V2 is SW9. Maybe they've planned this for years.... :p
 

emoo

Hyper Poster
Not the roar.... I get why but hearing the deep sound before you see it will be missed.
 

JoshC.

Strata Poster
It's interesting that the plans don't seem to suggest any changes before the new track. Entrance and queue line retained, theming retained, minor cosmetic changes to the station.

This very much is not "NemesIIs", but simply "Nemesis, with new track".
 

DelPiero

Strata Poster
the track is being filled with sand out of consideration for the locals.
giphy.webp


**** you Merlin.
 
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