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Phantasialand | F. L. Y. | Vekoma Launched Flying Coaster | 2020

pvnks

Mega Poster
Speaking of experience, it would be absolutely barmy and unheard of for a company to have an open-ended date when proposing and investing in a project, it just doesn't happen.

Key milestone dates in the CDM (construction design management) process are usually outlined quite bluntly from the outset with an allowed contingency of days / weeks to allow for delays in construction.

In the project I'm involved in at the moment, we have a date-by-date roadmap, construction storyboard with everchanging blueprints, morning meetings, daily safety audits all to a strict set schedule and completion date. This is usually intrinsically tied to forecasting (as lofty points out) in regards to overheads, ROI, projected quarterly financials etc etc.

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Hixee

Flojector
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In the project I'm involved in at the moment, we have a date-by-date roadmap, construction storyboard with everchanging blueprints, morning meetings, daily safety audits all to a strict set schedule and completion date. This is usually intrinsically tied to forecasting (as lofty points out) in regards to overheads, ROI, projected quarterly financials etc etc.
Thank Christ, someone else who speaks sense. Good post, @pvnks, stick around - we might need some more of your help to stomp out this nonsense. :)
 

Ben

CF Legend
You’ve fundamentally misunderstood what everyone’s saying Poke.

No one has said they have a fixed opening date in mind at all, the argument is they have a targeted completion date in mind that may or may not be met.

I suggest you re-read the posts so you fully understand what is being discussed.
 

Pokemaniac

Mountain monkey
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You're not wrong, Poke, but a decent project manager should be able to make forecasts like that. You know that great big airport building I've been working on (you know, this one: http://coasterforce.com/forums/threads/what-is-your-profession.39008/#post-928253) that makes FLY look like :emoji_zipper_mouth:ing tiny-town? The army of project managers on that have been making forecasts like that for over a decade on that project and are constantly reviewing progress.

Still going to argue here, if only for the sake of arguing. In terms of construction projects, FLY is practically tiny-town, so it doesn't quite have the same level of project management behind it. You need an army of project managers to get an airport going (I daresay the Germans have learned that lesson all too well...), but a coaster project at an amusement park doesn't have quite so many actors or quite so much money in it. The stakes are lower, so there isn't the same pressure of coordinating every process to account for every bit of uncertainty. It's not a disaster for the park, or its sub-contractors, if the schedule slips a bit. If the same happens on an airport, you've got bills running into the millions pretty much immediately, because you've got sixty thousand people standing with their hands in their pockets, racking up overtime.

It seems like FLY is a pretty advanced contraption to build too, for a theme park - basically, they are building both the coaster and the surrounding buildings at the same time, inside a pit. That's more advanced than most coaster projects I can think of, so there isn't much experience to get from previous projects. Such an intertwined structure requires some unusual construction methods, so it may very well be that they've chosen to approach the uncertainty by putting in a lot of leeway on the time schedule. There seems to be only one contractor responsible for both erecting the coaster and the concrete work, plus putting large theming elements into place. The park will probably have the capability to do (or at least, coordinate) most of the rest of the work in-house. That contractor's schedule might be very generous with the allotted time, just in case something unforeseen puts everything back a week or two, and the in-house work may not be completely scheduled yet - with all the implications that has for the uncertainty of the opening date.

Of course, it's wasteful to hire cranes for longer than you might need them, or pay the contractor for hours he won't be working, but it may very well be cheaper than hiring that army of project managers and trying to map every risk in advance. They might have given the main contractor 13 months to finish while he might be done in 11, and then decided that other actors (carpenters, painters, marketing, coaster testing, etc.) will only have their schedule be determined in month 12, and be initiated on the first day of month 14. Within those 13 months, it's all up to the contractor to organize deliveries and coordinating work shifts and all that jazz. Major headache if he slips beyond those 13 months and his schedule starts conflicting with the other sub-processes, but major profit if he manages to do it in less time. It's expensive for the park, sure, but possibly less so than running a tight schedule and then missing a few deadlines. Then they'd be paying for both the rigid planning and for the delays.

This would mean that Brian's mate could get the impression that they've got all the time in the world. If there haven't been any bumps in the construction process, and the best-case scenario is playing out smoothly, it certainly makes the project manager a lot less stressed, which impacts the atmosphere on site. Sure, the contractor is still under pressure to finish as quickly as he can (the sooner, the higher the profit), but the deadline is not looming over them. They'd be given a lenient PC date, and if they appear to manage to meet it with plenty of margin, it may seem as if they don't need to stress at all.

TL;DR: the conjecture is that this is a project with many uncertainties, this is dealt with by putting wide margins in the schedule, and now everything is going smoother than anticipated. Add a few layers of "telephone" between the project manager and Brian, plus possibly a language barrier, and it's possible to see why he posted what he did. Taken at face value, the statement "they don't have a date" may be ridiculous, but I can imagine a few good reasons why he might have got that impression.
 

Hixee

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Still going to argue here, if only for the sake of arguing. In terms of construction projects, FLY is practically tiny-town, so it doesn't quite have the same level of project management behind it. You need an army of project managers to get an airport going (I daresay the Germans have learned that lesson all too well...), but a coaster project at an amusement park doesn't have quite so many actors or quite so much money in it. The stakes are lower, so there isn't the same pressure of coordinating every process to account for every bit of uncertainty. It's not a disaster for the park, or its sub-contractors, if the schedule slips a bit. If the same happens on an airport, you've got bills running into the millions pretty much immediately, because you've got sixty thousand people standing with their hands in their pockets, racking up overtime.
That's true, but the much smaller project I'm on site with at the moment in Cornwall is much closer to the scale of FLY and still has four people managing the program (two from the contractor's team, two from the project managers). That project is a new archive for the local council, so even less 'commercial risk' compared to FLY! The point is, these project management procedures are standard practice in any part of the construction industry, otherwise things simply don't get done. Me using the size of the project as an example was to say that programs are produced, controlled and managed (with dates!) on everything up to the largest projects. It's plenty doable.

Taken at face value, the statement "they don't have a date" may be ridiculous, but I can imagine a few good reasons why he might have got that impression.
I'm not necessarily refuting that, Brian's statement was far closer to "they don't have a deadline and so aren't rushing". Very, very different.
 
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CSLKennyNI

Giga Poster
Bois, can we please just move back to the wall or something?
Your wish is my command. New pic from PhantaFriends.de.
WaterMark_2018-10-10-13-54-25.thumb.jpg.1a281c24a46dbecfa037e8ac43a9c3ee.jpg

The top of the towers are red now.
Undercoat/base layer for the actual colours to be painted on?
Or will they resemble mushrooms as suggested by the original poster of the image?
Or this due to the lack of a schedule and bored workers just doing whatever they want?
Who knows? :p;)
 

Robert.W

Roller Poster
Hmm. Interesting colour choice for the tops of the towers. At the very least I expect they will be “weathered” a small amount so to make them appear more natural, in keeping with the Wuze theme. But I’m thinking they’ll probably paint a darker, greyish colour on top of the red that’s already been applied, which will relate more with the Rookburgh theme colours.
 

Ethan

Strata Poster
HAHAHAHA SO FUNNY. OMG! So clever. I totaly said that.
Everyone who does not believe me, I am laughing at you. I saw a picture of a finished train for F.L.Y.
But, does anyone believe me? Ofcourse not, because I was not allowed to make a picture of that. No proof, or facts means inmeaditly that it is bull. That is how you guys work...
Today I did not describe it perfectly what I meant, but @Pokemaniac was thinking about it, and later on, he described it better than I did. (Thanks for that) He did not say, that it is nonsense and it is impossible, etc.
Guys this project is not a standard boomerang or a SLC. Eveything you know from previous rides, is wrong. This is different. And sure they HAVE a scheduele, they have @Ethan, but litteraly what my source said to me. "Phl does not see any reason to open it asap." They do it slower and try to keep the costs a low as possible. They could have done some things faster in the past, but they don't want to spend the extra money for that. (I described that a long time ago.)
You do with it what you what. If you don't believe me, its fine. I'll sleep just fine.
What the **** are you tagging me in this for? I haven't even been involved in this.

No proof, or facts means inmeaditly that it is bull. That is how you guys work...
We don't treat it as BS, we just don't treat it as fact, which is what you want everyone to treat it as. Brian, we just don't care. You can't post things on the interest (which are probably bull anyway) and expect people to believe it without providing evidence. You're playing the very transparent "I know more than you but I'm not going to say what it is" game. You talk out of your arse, you get called out on it, and then you cry like a child. Seeing as you like posting **** so much, have you considered making a new thread for your ramblings? Nobody will bother you there.

As for the red on the walls, interesting choice. Will be interesting to see how it goes with the rest of the facade.
 

HookahMan

Roller Poster
HAHAHAHA SO FUNNY. OMG! So clever. I totaly said that.
Everyone who does not believe me, I am laughing at you. I saw a picture of a finished train for F.L.Y.
But, does anyone believe me? Ofcourse not, because I was not allowed to make a picture of that. No proof, or facts means inmeaditly that it is bull. That is how you guys work...
Today I did not describe it perfectly what I meant, but @Pokemaniac was thinking about it, and later on, he described it better than I did. (Thanks for that) He did not say, that it is nonsense and it is impossible, etc.
Guys this project is not a standard boomerang or a SLC. Eveything you know from previous rides, is wrong. This is different. And sure they HAVE a scheduele, they have @Ethan, but litteraly what my source said to me. "Phl does not see any reason to open it asap." They do it slower and try to keep the costs a low as possible. They could have done some things faster in the past, but they don't want to spend the extra money for that. (I described that a long time ago.)
You do with it what you what. If you don't believe me, its fine. I'll sleep just fine.
How do you think that this could work? This area needs Money for every whole day with No Progress. The cranes cost Money each day. And If you take it slow to spare costs you produce even more costs...

I think you are trying to impress yourself in this Thread. Get a Real Life and Stop talking Bulls*** Here...

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[ Bear ]

Roller Poster
Everyone who does not believe me, I am laughing at you. I saw a picture of a finished train for F.L.Y.
But, does anyone believe me? Ofcourse not, because I was not allowed to make a picture of that. No proof, or facts means inmeaditly that it is bull. That is how you guys work...
What does that have to do with the discussion about the ''deadline''?
You can't show any proof or facts, why are you even telling us this :emoji_poop: ? If you're trying to impress, it's not working...
I'm always very skeptical when it comes to rumours and statements, especially when they come from you.... You lost all credibility on this forum and you got yourself to blame for that. Comments like these won't make it any better.
 

CSLKennyNI

Giga Poster
HAHAHAHA SO FUNNY. OMG! So clever.
Thanks very much! :D

I saw a picture of a finished train for F.L.Y.
But, does anyone believe me? Ofcourse not, because I was not allowed to make a picture of that. No proof, or facts means inmeaditly that it is bull. That is how you guys work...
Well yeah. You have no proof. So why should we take your word for it when you have no credibility?
I could write here with no proof that I've seen designs for an Robocoaster dark ride Phantasialand are sticking in the Temple of the Nighthawk building, or an RMC is replacing Geister Rikscha. People would rightly so not believe me as I've no proof or credibility. Anyone can claim anything on the internet. You cannot believe everything you read on the internet.
I wonder what happened to those rumours years ago online that Phantasialand are planning a Vekoma's Pandora's Box dark ride and an aquatrax. I assume they must still be coming. ;)

Today I did not describe it perfectly what I meant, but @Pokemaniac was thinking about it, and later on, he described it better than I did. (Thanks for that) He did not say, that it is nonsense and it is impossible, etc.
Guys this project is not a standard boomerang or a SLC. Eveything you know from previous rides, is wrong.

This discussion started because you wrote this:
There is no date, they are not hurrying at all. They don't want it to finish before summer or so. Most likely it will finish just after summer season. Or they decide now that they want to build fast, what I do not see them doing.
Which is bull****. 'They decide they want to build fast'?? They are obviously going as fast as they can. This is a complex layered project in a small compact site. It is not possible to go any faster. Track can't go up until the structural work underneath and around is complete. The site is too small for larger construction teams.

Guys this project is not a standard boomerang or a SLC. Eveything you know from previous rides, is wrong. This is different.
Klugheim is an area built on 11 different levels. Chiapas is a technology heavy water attraction with multiple layers underground and above ground stacked on top of each other. All of them heavily themed and in a tight space. Rookburgh is pretty much just like them. In fact in an interview they were described as the prototype construction projects for everything Phantasialand will do from now on.

but litteraly what my source said to me. "Phl does not see any reason to open it asap." They do it slower and try to keep the costs a low as possible. They could have done some things faster in the past, but they don't want to spend the extra money for that. (I described that a long time ago.)
They didn't introduce tons of extra offers, discounts and deals this year to attract visitors for nothing. It was to make up for the lack of any new additions and stop a drop in numbers. So they will 100% want Rookburgh open in 2019. A new major attraction and area is gold for marketing and bringing in guests. They do not want it taking any longer than necessary. So 'Phantasialand does not see any reason to open it asap' = bull****.

Once again as everyone previously tried to explain during the great concrete pouring debate a while back. Going slower with a construction site does not save money. They still have hiring costs of machinery and cranes, cost of workers on site. The longer this takes the more money it costs Phantasialand. They do not have the same amounts of money that big companies like Disney or Universal. This is a family business.
Such a major project like this which started with digging a massive pit in difficult to work with ground; then building an intricate area intertwined with a coaster, plus sound barrier walls and heavy theming takes a long time as it is. Why 'decide' to make it more expensive? It makes no logical sense and that is ultimately why no one can take you seriously.

There has either been a major miscommunication with your 'source' or you are just full of ****.

You do with it what you what. If you don't believe me, its fine. I'll sleep just fine.
That's nice to hear. Sweet dreams.
 
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peep

CF Legend
Oooo, surprised to see some colour on the wall and turrets so soon. This does leave me questioning something else though - why are there two gaps towards the top of the wall?

Love this mysterious construction process.
 

dirkjarczewski

Roller Poster
Oooo, surprised to see some colour on the wall and turrets so soon. This does leave me questioning something else though - why are there two gaps towards the top of the wall?

Love this mysterious construction process.
Drago

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