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Gröna Lund | Monster | B&M Invert | 2021

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I've only experienced the vests twice (Flug Der Dämonen and Valkyria) and never had a problem with either outside of Valkyria's feeling tight when you sit and wait in the station, but they loosen up once the ride actually starts.
 

marcolli

New Member
I've seen lots of posts around from the B&M factory in the USA with the grey track supposedly for this ride. Why are they producing it in the US if its going to Sweden? Do B&M not have a European factory?
 

CrashCoaster

Well-Known Member
I've seen lots of posts around from the B&M factory in the USA with the grey track supposedly for this ride. Why are they producing it in the US if its going to Sweden? Do B&M not have a European factory?
No, every B&M coaster ever made has been manufactured at Clermont Steel Fabricators in Ohio. It is their only track manufacturing facility.
 

Antinos

Slut for Spinners
By locking, do you guys mean how they tighten during the ride? Swarm’s still tightened noticeably last time I rode it in August 2019, so I’m not sure if Merlin had their wing coasters retrofitted.

To be honest, I don’t actually dislike B&M’s vest restraints. While they do tighten, they’re not the only restraints I’ve known to do that, and I wouldn’t say it majorly inhibits my enjoyment of the ride, personally. Olympia Looping’s shoulder bars tightened to a far more enjoyment-restricting degree for me, and even the Mack lap bars on Icon do tighten as the ride goes on, although as with Swarm, I don’t find this tightening inhibits the enjoyment for me.

What is it that everyone seems to hate so much about them on Inverted Coasters and Dive Coasters?
The vests are still spring loaded so they will retract as the ride's forces push you into your seat, but with the locking mechanisms removed they will return to a more comfortable position once the loads decrease. The main complaint with the locking mechanisms is that they'd retract in every valley and constrict your chest more and more throughout the ride.
 

Matt N

Well-Known Member
The vests are still spring loaded so they will retract as the ride's forces push you into your seat, but with the locking mechanisms removed they will return to a more comfortable position once the loads decrease. The main complaint with the locking mechanisms is that they'd retract in every valley and constrict your chest more and more throughout the ride.
Ah right, thanks for the clarification @Antinos!
 

Hutch

Well-Known Member
Does Valravn have the locking vests?
Valravn doesn't. And from what I've done, neither do Banshee, Thunderbird, or Gatekeeper.

Banshee is the worst B&M invert though, though that comes down the rattle and lack of snap/whip in the inversions. However, I am beginning to wonder if the rattle is due to the heavier trains. All the other inverts, which as you know have the standard trains, hold up pretty well. It might also just be down to Kings Island's job on maintaining Banshee, but it's still in much worse shape than Diamondback, which has been around for an extra 5 years.
 

roomraider

Best Topic Starter
No, every B&M coaster ever made has been manufactured at Clermont Steel Fabricators in Ohio. It is their only track manufacturing facility.
Actually this isn't entirely true. I believe the early European B&Ms (and possibly early Asian rides like Diavlo) were made at G-Tec in Switzerland before they later on switched to using Clermont for all their rides.
 

MouseAT

Active Member
Restraints don't play a factor of whether a ride has airtime or not, rather that amount of freedom you have. Vest restraints or not, the airtime is still there. The negative g force doesn't magically go away.
The difference being that B&M elements aren't designed to have negative G forces. They're designed to be around 0g, i.e. the elements are designed to be forceless. The excitement when a ride passes through these elements therefore stems from how the human body reacts to the absence of normal gravitational forces. If you've got some room to move, the sensation is interesting/exciting. If you're stapled into your seat so that you don't move at all as you crest a hill or dip down towards a lower part of the ride, it's virtually unnoticeable. It's why Valkyria is my least favourite dive machine, despite it having the best post-drop layout of any dive machine I've ridden. It's not a problem unique to the vests either; I have similar issues with the clamshells on the B&M hypers. If I've got space to move a bit, they're amazing. If I get stapled, the hills may as well not be there for all the effect they'll have.

Once you ramp up to actual negative Gs, you are correct - there are actual forces present and acting on the body, and you can feel them regardless. I don't need space to enjoy airtime from an Intamin or Mack Mega, for example.

On an invert or wing coaster? Vests aren't such a big deal as the focus isn't on airtime, as long as they don't try to design in hills that exist for the purposes of delivering airtime.
 

Trax

Member
Maybe it's me being tall, but the OSTRs feel way more restrictive than the Vests. The vests just touch my body, while the OSTRs push heavily on my shoulders, eliminating nearly every freedom of movement I could have.
 

Ethan

Well-Known Member
I'm also tall and vests are literally the worst. I get them on flyers and wing coasters but anything else is pointless in my opinion.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
I don’t mind vests, but gripe that they were solving a problem that never really existed - apparent rider comfort. The B&M OTSR is one of the best restraints in the business.

I would hope Grona goes with OTSR; it wouldn’t spoil the entire ride if not, but would also understand concern around train width (vest restraints are pretty thicc) given the tight turns and support design they’re pulling off.
 

Peet

Member
C'mon folks that is literally 2 whole pages going on about B&M vest restraints when we have a whole topic for them here:

I love that Grona Lund are squeezing this coaster in, the layout looks a bit weak IMO but hopefully the interactions and near misses will make it good.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
Staff member
Moderator
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I love that Grona Lund are squeezing this coaster in, the layout looks a bit weak IMO but hopefully the interactions and near misses will make it good.
Thinking a bit more on that - is this the shortest B&M to date? Blue Harvest is currently clocked at 2,296 ft. on RCDB, shorter than Nemesis Inferno (2,460 ft.), Batman the Ride (2,693 ft.), and Black Mamba (2,519 ft.). Am I missing any other?
 

JoshC.

Active Member
Thinking a bit more on that - is this the shortest B&M to date? Blue Harvest is currently clocked at 2,296 ft. on RCDB, shorter than Nemesis Inferno (2,460 ft.), Batman the Ride (2,693 ft.), and Black Mamba (2,519 ft.). Am I missing any other?
Presumably you mean B&M inverts? Because obviously many of the Dive Machines are shorter

But if the B&M inverts, yeah this will be the shortest (if you exclude the family ones).
 

Matt N

Well-Known Member
The original Nemesis is only 2,349ft, so not much longer than Blue Harvest. But if Blue Harvest rides anything like Nemesis, then it will pack a lot of thrill into its length!
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
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Moderator
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Presumably you mean B&M inverts? Because obviously many of the Dive Machines are shorter

But if the B&M inverts, yeah this will be the shortest (if you exclude the family ones).
Hah yup. Indeed the layout is pretty hangtime-heavy, will be interested to see how the actual transitions play out.
 

Howie

Active Member
Thinking a bit more on that - is this the shortest B&M to date? Blue Harvest is currently clocked at 2,296 ft. on RCDB, shorter than Nemesis Inferno (2,460 ft.), Batman the Ride (2,693 ft.), and Black Mamba (2,519 ft.). Am I missing any other?
At 2,260ft, Flight Deck is 36ft shorter, making it their shortest invert.

There's an even shorter floorless model at 1,850ft:

And, of course, the shortest B&M of all is dear old Blivvy, clocking in at a measly 1,222ft:
 
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Kw6sTheater

Member
At 2,260ft, Flight Deck is the shortest B&M invert:

There's an even shorter floorless model at 1,850ft:

And, of course, the shortest B&M of all is dear old Blivvy, clocking in at a measly 1,222ft:
I was about to mention Daemonen as soon as I saw @Hyde's question! You beat me to it... 😛
 

bob_3_

Active Member
C'mon folks that is literally 2 whole pages going on about B&M vest restraints when we have a whole topic for them here:

I love that Grona Lund are squeezing this coaster in, the layout looks a bit weak IMO but hopefully the interactions and near misses will make it good.
Yeah I'm super excited about this, but not really about the layout, I think it's fine. But the idea of GronaLunds charm mixed with a brand new B&M is such a lovely sounding combination. I also love how they seem so determined to get a B&M in there, we've had concepts of this happening way before they even announced this... in 2017! Imagine being this team involved, you must have alot of love for this project to see it through. I also love the idea of a triple A coaster sitting in the center of a city (although makes me a little jelous). Seeing an Intamin tophat from so many places in Helsinki just filled me with joy. The idea of visiting Stockholm again and seeing a B&M in the middle, urgh it's the stuff of dreams!
 
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